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Operating Points Outdoors

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Mick, you've caught me out.

It's not actually an aluminium rod, but a very small tube. But to make the explanation simpler I called it a rod rather than having a second tube, which could have got confusing.

I used some solid core copper wire to re-enforce the tube. It also proved very handy at the other end as the copper wire fitted very snuggly in the hole in the peco point.

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Chris, out of interest, which accessory decoder are you currently using with these motors? Halfway through my own points installation and I'm now having a rethink about whether to use a decoder with at least the one 'Y' point furthest from the shed. The ones you use can handle two-wire solenoids I take it? What else can they do? Are they for single motor installation or multiple?

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Accessory decoders (Accy) with Car Door Lock (CDL) motors

The CDL is a 2 wire motor. This is odd to all of us railway types who are used to  3 wire motors, but make sense when you think about it.

Look at a peco motor and you will see 4 contacts because it has 2 solenoids and each requires two wires.  We wire it with a common ground a make it a 3 wire system.

The CDL only has one solenoid and uses magnetic polarity to throw back and forth rather using two solenoids. Faraday taught us that to change the direction of a motor you changed the direction of the electric field. So we need a positive current to open and a negative to close.

In a DC system you require a DPDT momentary contact switch to flip the voltage for each throw. In DCC you need an Accy decoder which is suitably wired. 

Take a look at the manual for your Accy and you'll see the outputs labeled "common", "thrown" & "closed" or "common", "output 1" & "output 2". When you read this you'll probably assume that common is ground, 0 volts and the other two outputs are +12 volts. And you'd be right.

However, they are only 12v the moment when they output their pulse. The rest of the time they are at 0v and can act as a return/ground.

This feature is exactly what is required for CDL motors.  

This feature tends to be undocumented.

The two wires of the CDL need to be connected to output 1 and output 2 of the accy and nothing is connected to the common.  The Accy should be programmed for solenoid motors.

When the Accy receives a "thrown" command from the system it fires a 12v pulse from output 1. This passes through the CDL, throws it, and returns to output 2. With a "closed" command the Accy fires a 12v from output 2 this closes the CDL and returns to output 1.

Due to the lack of documentation it's hard to be certain that an Accy is wired this way, but if it will operate slow action motors then the chances are that it will be.

So far both the accys I've tested have worked a CDL when wired this way, but the proof will always be in the pudding.

Edited by Guest

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Hi Chris, since I don't have DCC I am looking at putting in a SPDT slide switch that will have three pins so I operate signals mainly on the points further away from the throttle, I also use the point signals for the blocks passing loop, each track is isolated. ( for the CDL motor).

Will that work.

Tony.

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Just had to make some big changes to my last posting in this thread.

The more I thought about it, the more I realised that I had written a load of *#*<*%€*¥!!!

:oops:

Edited by Guest

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aussietmrail said:

Hi Chris, since I don't have DCC I am looking at putting in a SPDT slide switch that will have three pins so I operate signals mainly on the points further away from the throttle, I also use the point signals for the blocks passing loop, each track is isolated. ( for the CDL motor).

Will that work.

Nope, I don't think so. Start at the beginning of this thread and pay attention to what Ian wrote on DC control. You will need a DPDT momentary contact switch to create the pulse and to flip the voltage over between the 2 poles.

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Hi Chris can see what you mean, I didn't explain it enough, I know you need the DPWT switch the way you have wired it to be able to change the points, what I want to do is add a SPWT slide switch to the rod coming off the CDL motor to the point so I can switch the signals since I only have DC, two switches.

How the summer over there in the UK not copping the bad weather you did last summer where some of England was flooded.

Tony

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aussietmrail said:

Hi Chris can see what you mean, I didn't explain it enough, I know you need the DPWT switch the way you have wired it to be able to change the points, what I want to do is add a SPWT slide switch to the rod coming off the CDL motor to the point so I can switch the signals since I only have DC, two switches.

How the summer over there in the UK not copping the bad weather you did last summer where some of England was flooded.

That sounds feasible to me Tony, definitely worth experimenting with. I used latching relays for that purpose but what you mention could be a good alternative.

Ian R

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Not sure whether you'll think this a good idea or not but on my outdoor points I've used small Gem Mercontrol angle cranks to provide a 90 degree throw on some of my points. I was browsing online earlier this evening and discovered someone who had instead used standard plastic tile spacers as an alternative to the brass angle cranks. If you can imagine a tile spacer in the form of a cross, remove one or two surplus arms and you have a plastic 'angle' crank that just needs drilling to accept your operating wire and fixing to your base.

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Dunno Mick. Do you think they're strong enough? Especially after they've been drilled. Could be worth a try though as you'll get a bag full for a couple of quid.

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There are two sizes of spacer. Wall tile ones may be too small, but the ones for floor tiles are a good bit bigger.

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I wired up a CDL motor to my Team Digital SMD82 Accy Decoder. It didn't work. This could have been user error. I've chosen to use an alternative decoder. All of my CDL motors are now driven by the same decoders.

My recommendation for driving Car Door Lock motors with DCC is the Digitrax DS52 accessory decoder.

It is a track powered twin output decoder. It doesn't require a power supply.

Each output is powerful enough to throw a pair of CDL motors wired in series. Thus it can control 4 points, as long as the points are facing pairs.

It is small and can be easily housed in a suitable weatherproof enclosure. It also has plenty of grunt so can be housed in a shed 12m away from the motors.

It is very easy to program.

At £17.85 they are good value.

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That sounds feasible to me Tony, definitely worth experimenting with. I used latching relays for that purpose but what you mention could be a good alternative.

Hi IanR, I found a pic on the net how I could use the same set up connecting the SPST slide switch to the car door locking motor, going to ring the car wreckers this week to see how much the car locking motor are to buy from them , hopefully much cheaper than buying from eBay.

Tony

t1.jpg

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That pic shows a great idea Tony. The central locking motors are cheap as chips on eBay here in UK.

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Tony, that is a well timed photo.

I've now complete my CDL motor rollout and it has left me with a few electrofrog points which need a switch. Ian's latching relay would work, but I've been thinking along mechanical lines. The SEEP point motor system (PM1) provides a simple switch and I was thinking of creating something along similar lines using copper strip board.

I'm going to look at all the switches in my spares box and see if any of them are suitable for creating something akin to the photo.

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That pic shows a great idea Tony. The central locking motors are cheap as chips on eBay here in UK.

 

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Tony, that is a well timed photo.

Hi Ian and Chris, I rang the car wrecker earlier on no way as they want $20 for one car central locking motor and I would have to do the work, no thanks till I came across an eBay link that is selling the whole lot for $29, what do you think Ian way to go .

I found another way to set up a slide switch to the central locking motor and I wonder if I could actually wire the four motors to the remote control unit and have wireless switching with four points be awesome, I am having a lot of points close together at both ends of the station platforms, two single slip cross overs and one double slip cross over, be getting some points for my birthday in June.

Chris what is the CLD motor, can't find it on the net.

Happy modelling from down under Tony

t2.jpg

t3.jpg

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Chris what is the CLD motor, can't find it on the net

It's a typo Tony... It should be CDL... Car Door Lock motor!

Have you tried it with remote control yet?

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Hi Ian, no I haven't bought the car central locking yet will have to wait and see what money I get form my birthday end of June, bought from an Italian eBay a Lima replacement complete replacement motor arrived last week and today replaced the dummy trucks on my DB103 electric loco.

Bingo she is running on the rails again, took ages to find that, going to put in led directional lighting as well.

More to come I sold some HO scale40ft trailers and had to ask my wife for $20 more to buy a Mehano Thaly's 6piece TGV set, pure awesome can't wait for the train to arrive as both locos are powered units DCC ready the bloke said to get two sound decoders.Do I need two, for the other loco with out sound if I go that way, going to build the train up to a 10 car set.

Be interesting if I car switch all four motors separately, will let you know, all four open at once, will have to choose what points I want to open at once, works will go that way be cheaper than Peco points and those tortoise point motors, can you slow them down with the voltage.

Happy modelling from down under Tony.

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Hi,

I'm searching also for a suitable point motor.

Has anyone ever tried the Peco PL11 point motor outside?

_1-4_zpsskzorm93.jpg

Cheers,

Danny

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Nuvolari said:

..Has anyone ever tried the Peco PL11 point motor outside?...

I actually purchased one specifically for testing outdoors but never got round to doing anything with it. It was about that time that I began using the car central locking motors, as described by IanR, and they proved successful enough to mean I had no use for the Peco motor.

I guess there would be no harm in trying one to see just how long they would last but I believe the car central locking motors would be far more reliable. Their only disadvantage is the additional size.

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