Solar Power

[mick]

After some deliberation we've recently taken the plunge and had solar panels installed on the roof of our house. I'm now taking a keen interest in learning how we can save as much electricity as possible and also how we could possibly produce even more in order to keep fuel bills to an absolute minimum. We've already changed our normal household routine so that appliances are used during daylight hours whenever possible rather than later in the day so that we can take advantage of the power we can produce ourselves. However, the more ways you find to economise on your electricity consumption the more you find yourself wanting to make even greater savings.

I'm interested in adding solar power along with battery storage for use in the garden and garden sheds and I wondered if anyone had done anything similar. I know it's expensive to install and that like any other type of solar power it will take several years to see any returns but there's something satisfying about not having to rely entirely on the utility company for your electricity. Do you have any kind of solar power in your garden or sheds?

[cleanerg6e]

There was a big push over here for residential solar power Mick with the state government giving great rebates to have solar panels installed. However they ran out of money and severely cut the rebate so that it died before it got off the ground. Over here the excess power that you generate is fed back into the national grid and they pay you for it.....but not much. Certainly not what they charge you for supplying you with power in the first place. Too make yourselves even more self efficient have you looked at installing a small wind turbine so you can generate power 24/7?

I don't have a solar panels due to the technology being in it's infancy. The panels only convert about 3% of the suns energy into electricity. Although you'd have no need for it many people over here have now started fitting water tanks after an about face by the government. For years it was illegal to fit a water tank as the state wanted to be the only water supplier to residential properties. Then we had the 10 year drought and suddenly a change of heart by the authorities so that small and large polythene tanks are now available. But there is a catch...of course. Tanks can only be installed to supply water for the garden, washing the car, and for your toilet or toilets. But NOT for drinking, cooking, showering or washing clothes. They still want to charge you for the majority of your water use. As I wrote in another post there was one local lady who had a quote done to make her home as environmentally friendly as possible. Total cost $60,000 or 28,000 pounds. Savings per anum $30 or 12 pounds. She calculated that she would need to live in her house until the age of 90 to 100 for the money to start rolling in. Maybe in the UK it's a different set up.

Roy.

[mick]

It's a very similar set-up in the UK Roy. Any surplus electricity we produce is fed back into the grid and we are currently paid 4.5p per Kwh by the utility company. It costs us between 10p and 15p for the units we purchase from them! In addition we receive (currently) 16p for each KWh our panels produce whether we use that electricity ourselves or not. Like the Australian government, the UK government has redefined the guidelines over recent months with regards to the production of solar power and its benefits to homeowners. Owners used to receive approx 44p per KWh produced which was subsequently reduced to 21p and then 16p. I believe that anyone installing panels today will receive 15.44p per unit. These rates, depending when you initially signed up to the scheme, are guaranteed for 20 years.

Solar power is still too expensive. Without the government tariffs we would be lucky to break even over the course of 20 years, after all, as we all know, the UK isn't renowned for it's abundance of sunshine!

[cleanerg6e]

Guaranteed for 20 years Mick?, and if the utility company is taken over by another company who doesn't want to honour the previous agreement what can you do. If your utility company goes into liquidation bang goes your rebate. Governments also have a nasty habit of changing agreement terms when it suits them. You know when there's a change of government and the new lot say " the previous lot left the economy in a mess so the rebate will drop from 16p to 8p" It may go down further or be eliminated altogether. They then waste the money which should have been going to those with solar panels on frivolous rubbish in marginal constituencies simply to be elected next time round, like international sporting events.

I know I'm sounding very negative Mick but I simply don't trust any government or the utility companies.

Roy.

[mick]

I think the 20 year guarantee for the tariffs is a pretty sound one Roy. It's a government backed contract that I'm sure would stand up well in court should the unthinkable ever happen. Certainly there's the real possibility that tariffs could be abolished at any time for new installations but existing ones will be honoured I'm sure.

Right now it's a very sunny day and we're producing more power than we can use. What I need is a way to save the excess power we are generating for use later in the day or on those less sunny days.

[george356]

When you have an excess of power, Mick, why not use it to charge 12v car batteries. Rather than getting 4.5p back on selling the electricity to the Utility company, use it to charge the batteries to supply low voltage lighting and power to the shed, and for the railway.

[Riddles]

With our smallish 8 panel system (2kWp) which we have had installed for 12 months, we don't actually submit the details of the amount we haven't used. It is just estimated at 50% of the generation, which I think is very generous. The system cost us £9,495 and has paid us back £1,853 tax free, in the first year. Better than money in the bank.

[mick]

george356 said:

When you have an excess of power, Mick, why not use it to charge 12v car batteries....

That's something I'm considering George although you need to use deep cycle 'Leisure' batteries as opposed to standard car batteries. I'm also thinking about installing solar panels especially for the shed, again using batteries to store the power for use when the sun isn't shining brightly. A garden railway operated using our own generated electricity sounds good to me.

Riddles said:

With our smallish 8 panel system (2kWp) which we have had installed for 12 months, we don't actually submit the details of the amount we haven't used. It is just estimated at 50% of the generation, which I think is very generous. The system cost us £9,495 and has paid us back £1,853 tax free, in the first year. Better than money in the bank.

We have a 16 panel 4kw system (actually about 3.7Kw) and we've been informed that we will also be paid the additional 4.5p export tariff for 50% of the total amount we generate. However, we already have a smart meter installed for the electricity supply which in addition to recording our daily consumption actually records the amount we export back to the grid so we'll have to wait and see which figures they use.

I assume that as your system was installed 12 months ago you will be on the higher FiT rate of 44p per unit? We just managed to get in before the 1st November 2012 deadline so we only receive 16p but our 4kw system cost £2,450 less to install. As the FiT rates are reduced so is the cost of installation which I guess is the only way they'll continue to tempt people to purchase. Even at the lower rates that we receive we considered it a worthwhile investment when compared to current bank interest rates and we're already seeing a substantial saving on our electricity use. Just keep that sun shining up north!

[mick]

Here's a couple of before and after photos of the solar power install. The first was taken the day before the actual installation shortly after the scaffolding had been erected.

And the photo below was taken today in the sunshine!

[cleanerg6e]

In the lower photo the one thing I like is that the doors to your houses over there are PVC coated steel. My aunty in Tiverton Devon and my late second cousin in Sittingbourne Kent have and had those. I took a good look at my aunties and saw it had 6 bars that engaged with the door frame ( this was on the front door) and that it had rubber draft excluders all the way round the door. It was bloody heavy and was perfectly balanced to enable easy movement of the door. Here they are not available and solid timber is all we can get with a draft excluder attached to the bottom of the door. A great shame as I'd love to have two of those on my place. Another case of our backward country.

The same is said for polystyrene insulation under the floor. Not allowed over here due to the toxic fumes it releases if your house catches fire. Well what about all the other plastics in a modern home. There was a house fire here recently when an old lady left a dress on an electric heater. The house burnt from the floor boards to the roof supporting timbers and she was killed by the smoke. When people die in house fires that's what kills them not the actual flames but the toxic smoke released from all the modern furnishings as they burn. Underneath the house all was intact because the flames and heat go upwards not downwards. I know the late ladies son and he lived next door to his mum. They estimated she was dead 10 minutes after the fire started and there was nothing he could do due to the intensity of the fire. Very sad.

Roy.

[mick]

For our requirements and for their cost, the PVC doors (and windows) are ideal and far superior to a standard wooden offering. They are solid, fit well and are draught free. They are easily cleaned and retain their colour far better than earlier versions used to do. The multiple lockings are reassuring. I'm sure there are more expensive wooden doors that offer similar or even greater features but I doubt we'd be able to afford them!

[cleanerg6e]

Over here the PVC would deteriorate rapidly but a colour bond steel door and frame would be a viable alternative with the same draft exclusion and locking system. They sell PVC guttering and downpipes over here and I installed it at my place due to the old steel guttering having rusted out. The PVC warped and became absolutely useless within 2 years. So I had pre-painted aluminum fitted instead and touch wood (my head) it's still ok. Fascinating to watch it being shaped as it comes on a large roll about the size of a truck tyre and is then fed through a special machine so that it's flat when it goes in and shaped when it comes out. Unlike the old steel guttering there are no joints as they measure say the back of your house and the new aluminum guttering is a one length piece. The only joints are where you have a right angle.

Roy.