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chris
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Hello all,

I'm putting together plans for a garden railway. I'm starting from nothing, and mean nothing. No locos, no rolling stock, no track, no controllers, nothing. I do have a small garden (8m by 4m) with a big shed (1.8m by 3.6m) across the bottom of it. It also has a 1.2m high fence on both sides. I'm thinking of copying the construction techniques of The Kirkfield and Warmthorpe Railway seen as I was thinking along those lines and the results are very impressive. But beyond that it's all just ideas.

So I'm after your top tips. What advice do I need! What must I make sure I do?

I've picked up a few things from this forum already: The videos of the Selby Garden Railway have convinced me that I must have a loop, getting trains running is more important than scenery, but a smooth track bed is vital, and OO is the way forward. But I'm still thinking about lots of things and would love some input from those who have gone before me.

Many thanks

chris

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Hi Chris,

Firstly, welcome to the forum! It's good to hear you have decided that an OO gauge garden railway is for you and as you are particularly interested in Ian's construction techniques for the Kirkfield & Warmthorpe Railway I'll leave him the opportunity to advise on how to go about that form of construction. However, once you have your choice of base prepared the standard techniques used by most OO gauge garden railway modellers apply to almost all situations.

For optimum performance, track needs to be level and flat across all faces with extremely gentle or preferably no gradients. I have found that inclines are much more of an issue if you decide you wish to operate some steam outline locomotives which tend to be a lot lighter than diesels and unable to haul similar sized trains. On the whole, modern diesel loco's are capable of hauling scale length trains even up small gradients whilst steam loco's are restricted to about 6-8 coaches maximum unless your layout is totally free of gradients.

Apart from good track laying it is vital that you ensure you have electrical continuity between track sections. The metal fish plates last only for a short time before they eventually fail with a resultant loss in power. By soldering a wire bond across the rail joins (in addition to the standard fish plates) you will ensure there is no interruption in power supply to the track. Finally, with the track laid and joins bonded there's nothing stopping you running trains and having fun.

As for the type of layout I would certainly consider going for a circular loop. The big attraction with an outdoor railway for me is watching the trains go by and that has to be on a continuous circuit. House your station or storage yards inside your shed for protection from the elements and use the outdoor area to allow your trains a free run. Up to now I have been limited with what I've been able to use at any one time because I haven't had storage lines available for more than a couple of trains at once but this will change very soon so that I can store up to 10 or 12 scale length trains in readiness.

You will need to decide whether to operate your layout under standard DC control (the same type of electrical control used by a standard train set) or whether you want to venture into the newer realms of DCC control. Both systems have their supporters but DCC is the more modern route and it's in that kind of direction where the future of model railways lies. You probably already know most of this but basically, under DCC control each of your locomotives is fitted with an electronic chip and assigned an ID number. Once you enter that number into your controller by use of a keypad you are able to directly control that locomotive irrespective of any other loco's operating on the same section of track. You can therefore have more than a single train operating on the same length of track with each loco being under the direct control of the operator. DCC also offers the option of digital sound in your locomotives and additional accessory control such as for point motors etc.. An expansive topic!

Only you can decide what type of stock to obtain. You can go for steam, diesel or a combination of the two based upon a specific era or region, or like me just go for a totally freelance design. A 'preservation railway' theme always works well and gives great scope for the loco's and rolling stock. I just enjoy the sight (and sounds) of model trains running round the garden whether they be steam or diesel powered and I'm not unduly concerned that certain trains I have might never have been seen together at any time.

You say that getting trains running is more important to you than scenery but in my view, with a garden railway you have ready made scenery so do try to utilise what you have already and incorporate it into your layout. I know there is still a long way to go with mine but I love to see the trains against a backdrop of conifer greenery and there's no way I could have done anything like that indoors.

Well, that's a rather brief response to an all encompassing question but I hope you decide to continue to participate in the forum and we could then perhaps cover any topics in greater detail later. And don't forget, you are more than welcome to add details of your layout or even your proposed layout to the forum at any time.

Best wishes

Mick

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Hello Chris and welcome,

Nice to hear that you're impressed with the Kirkfield & Warmthorpe railway! I think Mick has covered most of the basics of building an outdoor model railway. Take your time getting things level and I think you'll be fine. Sourcing materials that will withstand weather is important too, avoid steel wherever possible. My layout has been through two winters now and seems fine. If you want to use points outdoors they will need bonding wires soldering onto them as you can't rely on the point blades to make a satisfactory electrical contact. I will upload a photo of how i've done it at sometime.

Can't think of anything to add at the moment but if you need any more advice please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Ian.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi everyone, I'm Tony from York. Like Chris I am just putting together some ideas to build a garden railway in oo gauge. I have been searching the internet over the past week or so for inspiration, and have just come across this site. It seems to have everything I need. Unlike Chris I do have some trains left over from when I was attempting to build a railway about 25 years ago. I am very interested in these new DCC trains, and what they can do, but am not sure if it is for me or not. One thing that would persuade me in favour of DCC would be if I were able to convert my old trains to DCC. I understand there is a problem with the current used by older models, so any advise you can give me would be greatfully accepted. To give you an idea of what trains I do have, they are a Class 47, class 86, class 87, Blue & Greyish "Blue Pulman", Brown & Creamish "Brighton Belle", oh, and an old Traing loco E3001. Basically, I am looking for advise as to how to convert them, or if I should leave them stashed away and just buy new stuff. Thanks for your help.

Tony

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Hi Tony and welcome to the forum.

I have to be honest and say I'm not sure if it is a viable option to convert the more 'ancient' models to DCC operation. Certainly the majority of the loco's produced over the last few years or so can be converted quite easily or at worse with a minimum of work. The current draw of older motors may be a problem with the DCC chips as you mention but it's something I have never looked into as all my stock is relatively new. As for which system is the better of the two then it would have to be DCC in my opinion. Layout's are now much easier to wire (no need for isolating sections etc), control over individual locomotives is absolute even when on the same length of track and of course there's the sound option which admittedly, still leaves room for improvement but I think once you have become accustomed to a sound-fitted loco working on your layout it's difficult to imagine running loco's without!

DCC has one major drawback at the present time and that's the cost. A decent controller will set you back around £200 and upwards although there are cheaper options available. A latest version sound-fitted loco will cost you approx £160+ (some of the older ones can be obtained for £112+) Even if you don't go for the sound option, a DCC chip is still required for each of your loco's and these cost from about £10 upwards. Adding a sound chip & speaker to one of your loco's is going to be in the region of £115.

If you are undecided and would still like to be able to run your older stock on DC while also venturing into the realms of DCC, then why not just plan the wiring of your outdoor lines so that you can switch between the two systems. At the flick of a switch and by changing controllers you could change from DC to DCC quite easily. That's something that I intend to do with mine so that I can run some of my non-DCC fitted loco's. I thought about disposing of all my DC stock but I'm not sure I really want to. I have a Bachmann Cambrian Coast boxed set that I've never used and I'd really like to see the 2 x GWR loco's and 6 x Western Region coaches in action!

As for the future, well it's obviously going to be DCC so that may be something for you to consider. Looking forward to seeing what you decide to do!

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Mick,

Thanks for the tips, I was kind've expecting you to say that about my "ancient" models. I think I will just condem them to a couple of display cabinets, or something like that.

So I am now in the position of starting from scratch, and it would seem daft not to go the DCC way. I have to say that what few models I have seen (on your website, and on "You Tube") that come with sound, are very impressive, and I would like to go down that route. I thought my biggest problem would be getting this past "the boss", but she seems to be coming round to the idea very nicely. I just showed her your video of the blue steam engine with the sound, and she loved it. (RESULT !!!!)

Just a few questions before I go back to the drawing board. The main manufacturers these days appear to be, Hornby, and Bachmann. I realise that they both have their own version of DCC, but are they compatible.? In other words, would a Bachmann model work with a Hornby controler, and likewise a Hornby model work with a Bachmann controller.? Obviously I have none of this equipment at the moment, so any comments on what you think to be the better option would be appreciated. The same goes for the "sound modules", are they interchangeable.?

Ok, that should do me for the moment. Time to grab the pencil and paper.

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That's good news Tony - will be great seeing the development of another garden railway.

I'm sure I'm correct in saying that DCC is itself a standard so in answer to your question, yes, anything DCC from Hornby, Bachmann or whoever, will work with whichever controller you decide upon. Bachmann's DCC chips can be plugged in to Hornby locomotives and visa versa etc, in fact I use Bachmann DCC chips for almost all my loco's as they are keenly priced and have (or at least had) a higher power rating than the more basic Hornby version.

Sound chips are also interchangeable and you can have these re-blown later with a different sound (a different class altogether or a different version of the same class) if you wish. Take a look at Howes Models for further details. From what I have heard, Howes sound recordings take some beating but that's just my opinion.

Let us know what you've managed to get down on paper!

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Hi,

Thanks for the feedback, with spring just round the corner and Frugal February over, it may just be time to start work on the railway.

By the looks of things I will have to start with a DCC controller and a train. My house backs on to the ECML in Copmanthorpe, 4 miles south of York and I fancy starting with something that goes past on a regular basis. The Bachmann Northern 158 looks like a likely candidate. The Hornby Northern 153 is also tempting. Would you recommend that I buy them with DCC fitted, or should I purchase the decoders separately and fit them myself?

I do have a good few meters of Hornby track from 30 years ago which I may set up on the windowsill in the conservatory just so I can get used to DCC control, I'm guessing that digital control has moved on a bit since my Hornby "Zero1" days.

Outdoor work will begin with the replacement of the fence panels. They're 10 years old and won't last much longer so it's best to replace them now. I'll have to decide whether the posts are strong enough as complete replacement may be more prudent (yet expensive) if I'm going to be canterleavering a railway off them.

The question that is vexing me most is what height I should have my track bed. The fence is 1.2 meter high, and 20cm down from the top seems about right. However the railway will have to cross the garden somewhere near the house and the windows in the conservatory are lower, about 60cm above the ground. If I want to use the wall of the house then the base board will have to be lower than the window ledge and although very convenient it just seems a bit low down. To have the railway 1m above the ground will mean spaning the garden (all 4 meters of it!!) about a meter away form the house with a moveable structure which will then have to be stored somewhere when not in use. My preference would be to make use of the house wall as this would be simpler and would give a longer circuit, but I fear the lower height wouldn't look right. The Selby Garden Railway is raised about 60cm, but it's on an embankment so it looks right. The Kirkfield and Warmthorpe railway is about 120cm above ground and again it looks right because it's on a fence. I guess I'll just have to have to try out different heights and see what I can live with.

Anyway, before all of that, I get to spend 400 odd quid on a couple of trains and a controller, which is more money than our total out goings for the whole of last month. Frugal February is very much over!

chris

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Well with that decision made Chris the next thing will be to think of a layout name and start your own thread in the Members Garden Railways section then you can keep all your messages together in a single place and it'll be easier for everyone to follow your progress.

I must have passed by the bottom of your house many times during my career on the railway albeit aboard the rather mundane merry-go-round trains during the 80s-90s. We used to collect coal from 'up north' which had been worked down by north east traincrews as far as York. Empties in and loaded back out! Used to be a nice run out for us.

I wouldn't suggest starting with the Bachmann class 158 as they are not DCC ready and fitting a chip would involve a degree of additional work with the motor. You might be able to purchase one and have the shop fit the chip for you for a fee but you'd need to enquire first. The Hornby 153 would certainly be a good choice and you may as well go for DCC fitted to save the trouble of doing it yourself. The loco bodies can be a real pain to remove sometimes with the possibility of damage if you aren't careful. Not sure how difficult the 153 is but why worry - get it DCC fitted if you can.

Not being too familiar with Hornby Zero 1 myself I would imagine that things have moved on quite a lot since then. However, the idea is much the same with each loco having a digital address and requiring a chip. If you're familiar with Zero 1 then you should have a good idea of what it's all about.

You should be okay messing around with the old Hornby track on a windowsill in the conservatory but at 30 years old it's going to be steel I would think and about useless outdoors. DCC does require a clean track for optimum operation, especially if you are using sound chipped locos where a loss of 'signal' can result in the sound sequence cutting out and restarting from the beginning again.

As for the height of your layout then that's a personal choice taking into account your environs. I quite like mine near the ground after initially thinking it would be too low. It seems easier to blend it into the garden (when I get round to working on that). I guess that if I had stations and marshalling/shunting yards then it would be uncomfortable at such a low level but for watching the trains pass by it's proved to be ideal.

I don't have a lot of experience with model railways myself having only returned to the hobby last year but I'm learning and I'll help in any way I can so all you have to do is post the request.

Wishing you all the best

Mick

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK, I've started. Last week I purchased The hornby northern 153 and 156 as well as a NCE Power Cab controller.

I spent an hour or so this morning cleaning the rust off the childhood hornby track and once it was good and shiny I put a loop together and took control of a model train for the first time in 25 years. The only annoyance was that I didn't buy a chip for the 156 (I got the 153 fitted) so I haven't tried running it, I don't have a DC controller and didn't fancy running a brand new DC train on the DCC system.

So now I have to pick a name and then get out into the garden and start getting on with construction.

chris

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Good to hear that a start has been made Chris.

We're just about at that time of year when you can start construction out in the garden. It' s getting warmer and the days are lengthening and if you're anything like I was you'll be bursting with enthusiasm and eager to get something running. Fortunately the ground has dried out a lot too. Today would be an ideal day for a running session. The air's still and it's nice and sunny but I have some construction of my own to complete before I can get back into operating mode.

I hope you can come up with a plan for your garden layout fairly soon and that it won't be long before we can all see what's happening. I found that having a forum thread actually spurred me on to get things done quicker so I'm looking forward to the start being made on yours.

All the best

Mick

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  • 6 months later...

Hi Mick,

First of all I can't believe it was back in February that I was last on here. Well, when I say "on here" I mean posting, as I am always stopping by to see how your garden railway is coming along.

Anyway, the reason I am on today is to show you how far I have got with my own little project. Since I was last on here I started ground work in about April/May, and have more or less completed what I like to call Phase 1

Garden+Railway+Plan.JPG

I have, or will have 4 lines going either way inside the shed. It currently has 2 one way, and just 1 the other.

Phase 2 will be built early next year, and Phase 3 (my viaduct) will be built either after Phase 2 or the beginning of the following year. there is a very temporary wooden structure where the viaduct will be at the moment, so that I can "play trains". I also have a temporary join in the track where it would go into Phase 2, again so that I can "play trains".

It was my birthday on September 12th, and surprise surprise I got some railway bits as presents. My dear wife bought me the bachmann class 47 (my favourite loco) with sound, bless her. My son and daughter in Cananda sent me a Canadian Pacific diesel, ( they meant well.!!!), and my sister in law bought me some wagons. Naturally I had to give them all a test run, and so despite the weather had a little 30 minute session in the evening, which I also video'd . (As you would)

Ignore the fact that the Canadian loco and the Class 86 are going very fast (there's a reason for that), otherwise I'd be gratefull if you let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjH9FKr0DA

If i have done this right there should be a layout plan at the top of this post, and a You tube video near the bottom. If there isn't I apologise.

Ok, I just checked this post and the video was not there, so I have added a You Tube link. What do I have to do to insert (embed) a You Tube video directly into the post.?

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Blimey Tony - "I'll grab a pencil and paper" was the last thing you said and now here you are running trains around your garden!

You've made an excellent start and integrated the layout nicely with the rest of your garden. Running round the water feature looks really nice and the sounds of the running water goes well with the sound of the 47! I'm amazed that it appears to look as if the railway's always been there with no signs of the building site that I endured. I can see your location for the proposed viaduct and as I'm presently considering the future of mine I wondered what plans you had regarding the construction of your own?

I have that same Bachmann class 47 but I also have another class 47 with a sound chip that has been reblown with Howes 'sounds' and it gives a better driving experience. The Howes one is much better at increasing engine revs as power is increased and I intend to have my original Bachmann one reblown when I can afford to. It only costs £15 plus postage but there are other things I'm saving up for and don't want to miss out on!

before I forget, embedding a YouTube video in your post is easy. When compiling your post you can click the 'youtube=' button from the menu above the text input area or simply add the following:

[youtube=]

Within the first set of brackets, immediately after the 'youtube=' and with no spaces, just paste your YouTube link in full. For example, for the video you posted above you would paste exactly what you originally posted to publish a text link but put it immediately after the 'youtube=' and within the first set of brackets leaving everything else as it is. You should have the following (without the additional spaces I have inserted to prevent the link showing).

[youtube=h t t p: // w w w . youtube.com/watch?v=LRjH9FKr0DA]

Will be back later to take a good look at your plan.

Mick

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Mick,

Thanks for the nice comments, I was really "chuffed". My wife is now calling me Mr Goodie Two Shoes, because she read what you put as well.

First of all, thanks for explaining how to insert a video (properly) I shall keep that in mind for future.

As for the viaduct, I have had many ideas but I think I am going to go with the following. Build a framework, mould, whatever you want to call it, out of wood. Fill it with concrete, and obviously allow to dry. When dry, give the sides a little skimming of cement (as if plastering), and before it dries, etch, scratch or whatever some lines into it to form the brickwork. I will not of course be doing that to scale (far to small), but then who cares.?

I got the basic idea from a DVD called Model Rail - Garden Railway Expert. The guy in that builds his viaducts out of concrete, but he then attaches precast mouldings onto the sides. Not sure if I want to get that carried away, will decide nearer the time. I am actually going to make a small bridge in Phase 2, on which I will test out my idea. If it works well on that, then I will use it for the viaduct.

Incidentally, you said that you could not see any signs of a building site in my video, well of course you only saw the tidied up version. If you want to see how things have progressed since I actually started, then check out my Blog, its at http://thegardenrailway.blogspot.com

To login use these details:-

Username gardenrailway2010

Password tonystrains

Anyway, thanks again for the encouraging comments. Phase 2 may or may not get strated this year, as I have to do some other work around the garden before I can continue on with the railway. As they say.........watch this space.!!!!

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Tony,

Thanks for sharing your blog postings, I spent a really enjoyable half hour or so reading up on your progress and the lines construction. Even though you've still got plenty of work to do you actually appear to have made more progress than I have because yours blends in so well with your garden. I can see I'm going to be shamed into getting more work done around the perimeter of mine.

I had a similar plan for a concrete viaduct as the one you mention and then changed my mind and went for a totally wooden construction. There's nothing wrong with it yet, its still solid and holding together, but its having to protect it from the elements that I would like to change more than anything else. I've acquired some wood to use as shuttering if I decide to go down the concrete route but I've recently also been looking at girder bridges..... :oops: I've also considered completely replacing the viaduct with a station so I'm going to have to make up my mind sooner rather than later.

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