Worsley Dale Garden Railway

[aussietmrail]

HI Mick, those seep point motors looks like the way to go than Peco point motors as with the Peco motors you need a switch under the point connect to signals these ones you don't need one. I am amazed on the amount of wires , do you need to solder up all of them, you will be having signals as well, look good on a layout, I build my own signals, haven't tried three way signals, they would be a little harder to wire up.

Are they dearer than the Peco ones

Great work on laying those points inside the shed, points can be a pain especially with using cross overs, I ended up having to use the long express points.

I will be looking forward to be getting back to the layout when I finish the woodturning project in 14 days, really only be two more days to complete the coffee table, spending the rest working on my terminus station building and getting used to the new lap top.

How is the weather over there, cold week coming up this week, August is the month we cop the cold westerlies.

Tony from down under

[mick]

 

aussietmrail said:

.. I am amazed on the amount of wires , do you need to solder up all of them...

Wires have all to be soldered to the point although only 3 of them are actually needed to operate the point itself. There are 3 additional wires to solder if you decide to use the point's built in switch, which I use for changing frog polarity. I solder 6 short lengths of wire to the point, probably about 10-12 inches in length and then terminate them in a terminal strip connector so that it's a simple matter to join to them or change the point in future.

With regards to price I think the SEEP motors are about two-thirds the price of a PECO motor and I've found them to be very reliable although as you know, on my current layout they don't get a lot of use!

aussietmrail said:

..Great work on laying those points inside the shed, points can be a pain especially with using cross overs, I ended up having to use the long express points.....r

All the points used on the layout so far are Peco large radius. I do have some 'Y' points and double/single slips but I'm not sure they'll be needed at the moment. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.

The weather here....? Well it's not good. Temperatures well below average and more wet days than dry ones. Hopefully it will dry up by the time I get the urge to start laying some blocks at the viaduct.

[drmalesis]

 

mick said:

The weather here....? Well it's not good. Temperatures well below average and more wet days than dry ones. Hopefully it will dry up by the time I get the urge to start laying some blocks at the viaduct.

Well Mick I'm sitting here at work with the electric fan heater on. My hands are frozen - who'd believe this was July, almost August...

Duncan

[mick]

I hadn't expected being able to do anything today but a change of plans left me with some time on my hands and so I chose to install another point motor on the indoor station section. This one was fitted beneath the baseboards and meant working in that cramped space that I'm becoming quite accustomed to lately. It all went according to plan and the motor is working as expected.

In order to test the feed to the live frog I used my trusty 26024, but just look at the state of it.

The appearance of 26024 mimics how the whole layout must be feeling right now after three years steady construction and barely any running. It's all overgrown and covered in cobwebs!

[aussietmrail]

The appearance of 26024 mimics how the whole layout must be feeling right now after three years steady construction and barely any running. Its all overgrown and covered in cobwebs /quote]

Hi Mick I haven't done any work on the for a month now and after this Saturday will finish turning the coffee table project with a week to spare, be looking forward to getting back to the layout construction.

What you said about three years under construction made me feel a lot better when I started construction on my out door layout in March 2014, hopefully will see trains running before Christmas, always those little set backs.

I had trouble with send the Quote full sentence had to do a few words at a time, hopefully with windows 10 coming out soon will fix up the problem with windows 8 and make it easier as well on the forum.

One month of winter to go westerly winds are her and the days are pretty cold around the 15 degrees max not as cold ass it gets in England.

Tony from down under

[mick]

Today I've made some progress catching up with those little jobs that have been demanding my attention for the last year or so. One of my outdoor point enclosures had been covered with nothing more than a plastic water barrel stand since it was installed last year. Over the past winter the 'frog juicer' that was installed there failed, probably due to moisture ingress. Today I've replaced the frog juicer, which is a small circuit board that automatically feeds the live frog without any additional switches, and carved out an aerated block cover that fits over the point enclosure itself to protect it from the elements. At least that's the theory...... Here's a photo of the enclosure and its cover.

The point motor is a car central locking motor and the square plastic case sitting above it houses a DCC accessory decoder and the aforementioned frog juicer, packed within sections of cut foam.

With the cover placed over the enclosure this is what it looks like:

The cover has been treated with a good coat of water seal. I doubt you'd see anything similar alongside the real railways but if it keeps the workings protected then I'm okay with that. It's certainly a neater option than the previous plastic water barrel stand held down with a large rock!

Yesterday I cut back the overgrowth along the lineside yet again - that's the third time in recent weeks. Those little Thyme plants, whilst only a few inches off the ground, have created their very own 'cutting' effect, making it difficult to see the trains from the shed when they're on track. Here's a couple of photos taken either side of the tunnel. Excuse the quality but they were taken in fading light last night after the solar lanterns had illuminated. Note the sections of roofing felt flaking off where I had previously attempted sticking down some test ballast using the waterproof PVA glue method. I'm beginning to think that ballasting might not be such a wise idea.

I renovated a section of ballast on top of my first viaduct a week or so ago using the floor polish method and it's come adrift already. Perhaps it's not meant to be.

Anyway, today I ran some trains back and forth again - the trusty old class 26, a Black 5, and the two Northern Belle class 47s. It's good having additional sidings inside the shed so that I don't have to keep taking something off track before putting something else on.

Oh, I forgot to say that I managed to install another point motor inside the shed, leaving me with just one more to do until I decide to expand again. I had a bit of a problem with one of the previously installed motors not switching the live frog feed, leaving me with a short dead section, but I think I've remedied that now with some careful cleaning of the switch contact areas. Maybe that's a case for frog juicers indoors too.

Now, if only I could make some progress with that viaduct...!!

[chris]

The floor polish method of ballasting has been patchy for me. I think it really needs to bake hard for several days for it to be successful. Any rain within 24 hours and the ballast comes loose, but not necessarily straight away. I've also increased the ratio of N to OO ballast to make a finer mix which I hope will stick better.

[drmalesis]

I love the idea of ballasting the track Mick as it certainly adds to the realism. But I'm also of the opinion that continual maintenance detracts from the enjoyment of a garden railway for me. Given the amount of expansion in the plastic trackbed I've used I doubt very much if it would last very long anyway. Good luck with the Frog Juicers - I was seriously considering them before I decided that installing points was just too much effort, especially when all I wanted was to run trains...

Duncan

[mick]

I had a visit from Ian of the 'Kirkfield & Warmthorpe Railway' yesterday and we touched upon the subject of ballasting. He certainly appears to have had more success than I have despite the fact that it would seem we are using almost the same materials and on the same type of surface. Similar to you Chris, I even went as far as using pure 'N' gauge size ballast on top of my viaduct recently but even that has started to come adrift. I thought the tighter packed material would stick better but it seems not. I'm sure it won't stop my efforts as ballast was number two on my wants list behind the stone viaducts and so I'll be back for another attempt before not too long.

drmalesis said:

...Good luck with the Frog Juicers - I was seriously considering them before I decided that installing points was just too much effort, especially when all I wanted was to run trains...

I think there's more chance of success with the points than with ballasting Duncan and the frog juicers really do work well in my opinion. Using those central locking motors gives you the advantage and they are ideal for outdoor use - cheap enough too! Hopefully my 'aerated block' covers will protect everything from the elements.

[aussietmrail]

Hi Mick, you sure are moving along with the layout section in your shed adding more points for shunting, being ready when you connect the outside layout, I am actually feeling a lot better now that I haven't got any train movement on my garden railway, being at it for over 12 months, like all of us one person doing the lot.

Planning for a Christmas run seeing if I can con a new loco for Christmas, need more mixed freight wagons to build up a long more modern manifest train, I have 20 40ft older stile box wagons and oil tankers, talking about a 25 to 30 foot train.

Talking about ballasting the outdoor track, mightn't be a way to go since my layout is a modular design and not permanent , the ballast wouldn't last long and a costly item I rather spend money on trains and track and later DCC, I have about 50 locos now with decoders costing a bit.

As well I am only interested in running trains, will have only two modules with scenery on them and the station complex, stating to draw up the plans for the terminus station building tomorrow, of course will some where a refuelling facility for the diesel locos and turn table, work shop as well, mustn't forget the steamies.

Be getting stuck into the heavy construction before it gets too hot, a couple of weeks of winter left, the coffee table is finished and now at my sisters house, she loved it. back onto my layout end of August have a few other thing to do first, they say we are going to have a long hot and dry summer.

Tony from down under

[mick]

I spent a good few hours in the shed yesterday testing a batch of loco's and assigning them all their respective DCC addresses as many of them still had the default address of 03. I've started to write out some small cards, one for each individual loco, containing details of the loco and the actions of each function key so that I don't have to keep checking back with the manufacturer's paperwork. Many of the individual sounds I may never use but I would like to have the important ones to hand. At one point I had 11 loco's on track - Worsley Dale has never seen anything like it before! There were boxes everywhere and it was a lot of fun packing everything away again I'll say.

I noticed yesterday that one or two loco's were stuttering going over the pointwork whilst the majority had no problems whatsoever. My Bachmann G2A in particular, was very hesitant. I cleaned the track again with the track rubber and some IPA but there was still the occasional stutter. In the end I decided to check the power feed to the points and found that on some occasions, but not all, the feed to two of the live frogs wasn't switching. Then frogs were in effect dead sections. The next time I tried them they would work, only for them to fail again a few moments later. I initially suspected that the inbuilt switches of the SEEP point motors weren't doing their job correctly but after further examination I believe the fault may in fact be down to me and how I have installed them. I may not have the motor mounted exactly parallel to the point tie bar meaning that the throw, whilst enough to change the point, is sometimes not sufficient to change the switch contacts - at least that's all I can think of. The trouble is that it's so difficult working beneath the baseboards. For now I'm using a 'frog juicer' to power the suspect frogs until I can take a closer look.

Today I gave some thought to adding a loco storage area on the indoor section. I'm planning on installing a two road loco shed but haven't yet decided on the style. I particularly like the old brick built steam age structures but haven't seen one that takes my fancy yet. I've got room for three roads so one road will run alongside the shed. I'd like to install loco inspection pits inside/outside the shed, the Peco ones (LK56) seem to fit the bill nicely. I almost made a start extending the track towards the loco shed area today but feel that I need to install a catch point at the exit from the loco yard and the only one I have is in 'finescale -code 75' so I'll have to sort out an order for all the things I need.

[mick]

Just time for me to add a few photos taken today.

The first photo shows the area for my proposed loco shed. I need a trap point installing at the exit from the loco shed so until I get hold of one there'll be no further progress here.

The next two photos were taken from Worsley Dale platform, alongside which is currently stabled my weathered set of mineral wagons.

[aussietmrail]

Hi Mick, are you talking about a catch point Peco make them and EHuttons have hem in stock around 9 pounds, sorry as I don' t have the pound symbol on my lap top key board, the old lap top didn't either, pain should do.

It is confusing when some shops call the point SL-84/85 and others say SL-185/184, what is the idea of their use.

Nice pics of the way you took the last lot of pics of them looks so real, do you nail the tracks straight to the ply board and the height of the platform, I wont be using any underlay at all.

Busy week with specialist appointments and next week as well on top of a branch AGM meeting Saturday morning and off to a hobby show in the afternoon, not sure if there will be any model trains on display.

Back into my layout construction the following weekend, in the mean time be drawing up a plan of my version of Sydney Central station, even cut back in width will be big, 42 inches in width, in full HO scale be 1.6 meters in width.

Starting to warm up now, two weeks of winter left, looks like a long hot summer coming going by the temps we will be having this weekend in the high 20's.

Tony from down under.

[mick]

 

aussietmrail said:

Hi Mick, are you talking about a catch point Peco make them and EHuttons have hem in stock around 9 pounds.........

Tony. For my particular situation, (ie. exit from a loco shed), the item I need is generally referred to as a 'trap point' which prevents an unauthorised movement from a siding for example. A catch point, whilst very similar, is used to prevent wagons rolling back down inclines by derailing them before they can collide with other vehicles or trains. However, you're correct with your assumption that it's the Peco product (SL 84) I will be using here as it's all that's available, and you even have the correct name of my usual supplier, although other retailers are of course available

The difference between them is that the SL 84 & SL 85 (right hand and left hand versions) are from the standard HO/OO Peco 'Streamline' range and have a rail height to code 100 specification. The SL 184 & SL 185 are the equivalent products but from the Peco 'Finescale' range and have rail height to code 75 specification, smaller in profile than the standard code 100.

aussietmrail said:

...do you nail the tracks straight to the ply board and the height of the platform, I wont be using any underlay at all.

I've used cork wall/floor tiles on the indoor section as an underlay beneath the track and the platforms in order to maintain the same height throughout. I'm not sure there's any great advantage in using them as any sound-deadening qualities initially provided appear to be lost once the track is ballasted. I feel better for using them so I guess that's one benefit.

[mick]

There's been some progress with my loco shed area today and I've managed to get the three roads installed with much of the track wired and droppers passed beneath the baseboards ready for final connection to the power bus.

I don't want anything too big and indeed, there's barely room for anything more, but I think it's in keeping with the rest of the layout. As you can probably see, I have also decided to construct a small modern-looking two-road loco shed despite earlier stating my preference for something brick-built. This is the cheaper option and as it serves no real purpose other than being something else to look at it will have to do. Once it's complete with its roof and doors, a bit of weathering should set it in place nicely. Perhaps I now need a fuelling point, maybe even a coaling stage for the steamers - where will it all end? The two loco's on view are both Dapol Western's and I have a sound chip on its way for one of them hence the reason they're making an appearance.

Another addition to Worsley Dale is a booster unit for the DCC controller. I thought about it the other day when I had 11 loco's on track at once with just the standard power supply. I didn't have all 11 loco's running or anything but even just sitting on track they each use a small amount of power so an 8 amp booster is waiting to be inserted into the station and loco shed area where my plan is to make it a separate power district, leaving the controller itself to cover the running line round the garden. At least I can then have a 'play' in the shed even if it's not suitable for running outdoors.

[traingeekboy]

Since you are making a preserved railway it's not unlikely to see a large loco facility.

On a lot of layouts, it's sort of amusing to see how much more loco service there is compared to anything else.

Nice to see you working away slowly on the layout. I am really looking forward to the final extension, but I am sure it will get completed when the time is right for you.

[mick]

It's been another productive day in the shed and I'm finally getting very close to the finishing line with regards the actual track layout in there. There's now only one more SEEP point motor to install as I've fitted a further three today. One of those motors was a bit awkward because I'd managed to get the point tie-bar directly above a support for the baseboard. I had thought of installing the motor above baseboard level in a similar manner to the two I've already done that way, but instead I decided on another option with the motor beneath baseboard level.

I made a hole alongside the tie bar through which the point motor operating wire could pass and secured the motor under the baseboard. A short length of fine wire, actually from the Gem point operating range, was folded in half and passed through a sleeve of wire sheathing. The tip of this wire was bent at a 90 degree angle so that it could be passed through the end of the tie bar and the loop in the wire was passed over the point motor operating wire. The photo below should describe it better.

The looped end was soldered to the point motor wire and once cooled the excess wire was cut off with the Dremel slitting disc. It works perfectly.

This point has been wired together with the newly installed trap point so that both points operate together whenever a movement goes on or off shed. The mechanical linkage shown above only operates that point - the trap points use another motor - but the motors are wired together at the same switch.

[mick]

The last of the point motors has now been installed and it's such a relief to get them all finally wired and working. Isn't it always the case that by the time you reach the end you seem to come up with a more reliable and easier way of installing them? Never mind, they're done now, but a little bit of Blu-Tac made the process a whole lot easier.

With the motors done it was time to add some more track droppers and connect the remaining lengths of track to the power bus. I ran the class 26 back and forth throughout the entire station/loco shed area to test all the points and thankfully it seems I have a fully operational indoor section.

I was going to leave it at that for today, after all, there was already some serious tidying up to do, but instead I chose to take a look at the Peco inspection pits I had purchased. I had begun to wonder if fitting them would be worth the effort because once the loco shed is in place then they're hardly going to be seen. I don't have any plans for lighting them up as I've seen others do so would it be worth it? I decided to have a go.

I marked out their positions and used a chisel to gouge out the two slots required in the baseboard. Wasn't too difficult. This picture shows one pit in place and the gouged slot alongside for the second pit to drop into

The Peco kits come complete with short lengths of rail, or at least they are supposed to do. One of my kits had been opened and the lengths of rail were missing but I chose to use my own rail anyway so that wasn't a problem. I removed the unwanted plastic sleepers from the length of track I wanted to use and carefully threaded the inspection pit onto the exposed rails. Pretty easy though I have heard others have found it somewhat difficult.

With both inspection pits threaded onto the lengths of track they could be dropped in position and joined to the rest of the track.

And here's a photo of the still-unfinished loco shed in place over the inspection pits. The inspection pits come as a kit and you use as many plastic sections as required to make the length of pit for your particular situation. I chose to use only four sections for each pit and I now think I should have used five. Still, you can't easily see the rear of the pits so you'll barely notice. I don't really feel like chopping then apart and cutting out some more baseboard so I'm leaving them at that.

Now there's the loco shed to complete and I want a concrete apron round the shed area. That's going to be fun and looks like a job for the Polyfilla again. I've seen it done in plastic card before but there's nothing like the feel of real stone.

It'll be a couple of days before I can do anything else but I'm quite pleased with the progress I've made this past week or so.

[aussietmrail]

Hi Mick thanks for letting me know about the finer codes other than code 100 on those catch points

I made a hole alongside the tie bar through which the point motor operating wire could pass and secured the motor under the baseboard. A short length of fine wire, actually from the Gem point operating range, was folded in half and passed through a sleeve of wire sheathing. The tip of this wire was bent at a 90 degree angle so that it could be passed through the end of the tie bar and the loop in the wire was passed over the point motor operating wire. The photo below should describe it better.

I love the idea of what you are doing with that point arm bar instead straight into the point with the motor, the big question is how have you got the point motor set up under your table, I have had a lot of trouble setting up the point motor directly under the point and ended up cutting a big square hole so the motor fits straight to the point don't want to go that way, any help be great pics too please if possible

That idea also can be used if the there isn't enough room to fit a point motor because of a support beam.

Will have to agree with Griff as well as you don't see a lot of loco service facilities on layouts, I have figured out where I will be putting mine, will off the curved track car port end, want it close as I will have a working turn table to turn my NSW famous 3801 steamie and the Flying Scot when both locos pull into platform one Sydney Central, my freelance version.

You have given me again ideas with those loco service pits, I am thinking of having a clear roof so everyone can see the detail inside, another project after my railway station

It has taken a few days to work out the measurements between the windows and windows now I can move to drawing up the plans, going to b be a big job, all fold out in the new post on the planning section.

Keep the good work up Mick and pics flowing as well.

Tony from down under , not many days of winter left you much be glad to see autumn

[mick]

 

aussietmrail said:

..I love the idea of what you are doing with that point arm bar instead straight into the point with the motor, the big question is how have you got the point motor set up under your table, I have had a lot of trouble setting up the point motor directly under the point and ended up cutting a big square hole so the motor fits straight to the point don't want to go that way, any help be great pics too please if possible...

I'll add some photos tomorrow Tony. The SEEP point motor screws directly to the underside of the baseboard, aligned parallel with the point tie bar so that "its direction of operation is along the axis of the point tie bar". There is no physical connection between the motor and the point other than via the operating wire which passes through the tie bar linkage hole. The only hole needed in the baseboard is a narrow slot for the operating wire to pass through which needs to be of a width "slightly greater than the travel of the point tie bar". If you go back a few posts to the photo I took of my 'adapted' fitting with the operating wire to the side of the point, the slot I made in that picture is much too big!