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Worsley Dale Garden Railway


mick
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It's all coming along Mick. Looks good inside the shed too. I suppose one way to find out if the ballast on the track will stay in place is to coat it with several applications of polish and once dried try hosing it with a garden hose nozzle adjusted to a jet of water not a spray as when you water plants. Trevor Jones's garden railway in Model Rail said he used a high pressure water blaster on his ballast to get rid of mold. He did use PVA glue but found it became dislodged over time and went over to a mixture of quick drying cement and ballast which he said stayed put no matter what the weather did. Love the Worsley Dale temperature, 15.2 degrees oh god that's cold.

With recent events here now over I'll be starting to get back onto my railway. I have a senior family member who's urging me to get going again.

Roy.

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I just need to devise a method of keeping the models separated when they're packed away so that I can carry the boxes outdoors when required without fear of them getting damaged against each other. I have some foam that looks ideal but I'll need some more if it proves to be suitable.

I use strips of laminate flooring underlay foam for keeping my coaches apart, the boxes are also lined with it.

What brand of floor polish did you settle on Mick?

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cleanerg6e said:

It's all coming along Mick. Looks good inside the shed too....

Thank you for that Roy. It's good to see you back on the forum and we look forward to seeing you back on your railway just as soon as you feel up to it.

You've been spoiled Roy - 15.2 degrees is actually quite pleasant.

traingeekboy said:

Did you dilute the glue with water and a few drops of soap?

The floor polish doesn't need diluting or any drops of soap adding - it flows quite easily through the ballast without any surface tension. It's used directly from the bottle and applied carefully with a long pipette. You can actually see it spreading along the track length as you go. It normally sticks fast the first time but it's either the cork tiles or the ballast itself that's causing a hiccup. I'll be going out soon to take a closer look.

IanR said:

...What brand of floor polish did you settle on Mick?

I've been using Astonish Ian, the same as the one you photographed and added to the forum - (orange bottle, smells of cinnamon). I have high hopes for it outdoors given 2 or 3 applications but indoors on the cork tiles it wasn't as convincing yesterday. I hope it'll be okay because I would hate to have to loose the smell.

Thanks for the tip about the laminate floor underlay - I'll look into it.

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I'm getting just a bit peeved with all this rain. I need the shed door open so I can see what I'm doing beneath the baseboards just inside the doorway but it's raining so heavy I'm getting wet - not much fun so I've come indoors for a cuppa.

Disappointingly it seems the floor polish isn't going to be successful on the cork tiles and with the Woodland Scenics ballast. It may be the ballast rather than the tiles. I think I'll revert to the pva glue and water mix for the indoor section and see if that's any better. I suppose I could be doing that even with the shed door closed.

I've been trying to get the point motors installed and have now got 2 in position and awaiting final wiring. One requires some slight positional adjustment to get smoother operation - it's just rubbing slightly somewhere but I need a bit of light in order to see what I'm doing. I should be able to get at least 2 sets of points working today.

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Mick,

Whilst I'm on line, I forgot to pass remarks on the viaduct when you posted the pixs.

Let me say, it looks absolutely splended. I'd love to have a go at one of these features but as you know, not enough space.

Friends and relatives hitting the Island left right and centre...not knowing how to fit railway time in!

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Aaaarrghhh! It's hopeless - every time it looks like it might have stopped raining the moment I go through the shed door it starts up again. I've got a lamp and a torch in the shed with me now but it's hardly any better and with the door shut and so many tools knocking about there's no room to move. I'm not sure I'll be doing much more today. I've tested both the fitted point motors using the 'touching bare wires' method and both are in working order. I've cut the adaptor plug off a 16v AC transformer that I'm going to use as the power supply for the points and wired the transformer into the Gaugemaster capacitor discharge unit that I salvaged from the old layout. The transformer was initially the power supply for an old Hornby train set controller that has now been consigned to the bin. One of the Peco passing contact lever switches had been damaged either during the move or whilst in storage but I've taken it apart and sorted it out.

Rossi said:

...Whilst I'm on line, I forgot to pass remarks on the viaduct when you posted the pixs.

Let me say, it looks absolutely splended....

Thanks Rossi. It's got extremely dirty with the rain splashing up against it from the bare earth but it'll brush clean once it dries out again. I was looking yesterday and noting that there's still some work to complete on it - namely securing the track in place and finishing off the last bits of the top sidewalls.

Waiting to see what the weather does next before deciding if there'll be any further progress today.

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I'm getting the feeling that the Woodlands Scenics ballast wasn't the best choice I could have made? Not to worry, it was only purchased with the indoor section in mind and I've given some of the bits I have done already a good soaking with a PVA/water mix tonight so I'll see if that finally fixes it in place. It is very lightweight material but no problem with it floating around as it's already part-fixed with the floor polish.

It's been far too gloomy to finish off the motors beneath the baseboards but I have done the one above the baseboard that will be concealed by the signal box. Now I need to decide where I want the point switches so I can get them wired in. I'll think about that overnight.

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Following on from my previous post I've now completed wiring all three point motors at the viaduct end of the main station. I mentioned that one of the motors was mounted above the baseboard and would be concealed by a signalbox so here's a photo of the motor in position followed by one with the signalbox placed over the top.

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Having already got a couple of Peco passing contact switches for the point motors as well as a 6-lever frame housing, it was of course my intention to use the passing contact switches for changing the points. I like the idea that the position of the lever gives an indication of the route set without the need for anything else. However, I've changed my mind and instead I've gone down the cheapie route using a piece of old wardrobe and some nuts and bolts together with a probe from an old circuit tester.

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I've hinged the piece of 'wardrobe' so that when not in use it lies flat against the baseboards and when in use it can be raised at an angle for better access to the probe and bolts. It can also fold completely up for access to the wiring behind. This is it in the 'operational' position.

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Don't scoff. I know it's nothing special (it's an old piece of wardrobe side!), but it works perfectly and with point switches at £4 a time it's saved me a few pounds and got me operational a bit quicker. Here's a wider view of the point panel and the shed interior - all looking a bit DIYie.

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I'm pleased to say that the PVA/water mixture has finally fixed the ballast and so I'll be doing the remainder as soon as I can. I've also got to work out how many other roads I'll be needing and where they'll be going.

I've decided to use the Peco platform side mouldings as the basis for my platforms. I really need to get something moving and so the easier I make it the better it will be and the quicker I'll get something done. If anything needs changing at a later date I'll just have to sort it when the time comes.

All I need now is the motor fitting to the bottom set of points, a hole cutting in the rear of the shed and a short temporary extension track fixed in place and I can then run a train into a platform, detach the loco off one end and put it back on at the other end. That would be even better if I'd actually got somewhere to send the train to once I'd done it :(

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ba14eagle said:

...Have you any thoughts on putting some sort of indication on your panel, to show the route set?

Not at this stage Iain. From in front of the panel I can see how the points are set at the viaduct end and at the moment the only point I can't visually see is the one at the rear of the shed. Tapping the required route with the probe would set all the points anyway - if they don't move it should mean they are already set in the correct position. With single track on the exterior of each end of the shed there shouldn't be too much frantic activity anyway - I'll just have to keep my eye on things.

I'm not really bothered about too many fancy electronics on the layout. The problem with a garden layout is that we are in effect constructing what could almost, by comparison, amount to an indoor 'club' layout. And yet here we are usually going it all alone. It's a mammoth task to take on and there's only so much we can do. I don't want to rush things but on the other hand I don't want it to take years before I can start running something. I just want to get the basics operational and anything else can be added later.

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I tend to agree, Mick, simple is best, especially in adverse conditions. We should not fall into the trap of trying to make our garden railways resemble a club layout (that was a good analogy by the way). We should appreciate the scope we have outdoors and paint our picture with a broad brush. We can only go so far down the realism road, the limitations of the environment constrain what is possible and what is not.

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george356 said:

...especially in adverse conditions...

And we've certainly had our fair share of those this year!

George, you mention going down the 'realism road'; I often feel that what we do is in a way more realistic than what the indoor modeller does. We don't really have to create scenery, we don't need supplementary lighting, we can have trains of full scale length - just a few of the benefits of building an outdoor layout. The drawback? - well yes, it's the weather without doubt but this year has been exceptionally poor by any standards so it can only get better. I still don't think there's anything in our hobby to beat the sight of a model train running outdoors where it's captured in natural daylight in front of a backdrop of natural vegetation. They can spend however much time they please trying to replicate than on an indoor layout - it isn't going to happen.

Hopefully by the weekend I can make a start on positioning the platforms. I have to work out where the station buildings will fit and where any additional roads are going to go. Space is a bit limited to the rear of the two platform tracks but the curvature of the line should mean there's room for at least a couple of storage roads while still keeping everything within easy reach. Indoor scenery isn't one of my strong points so it will most likely be rather crude and basic but, as the main focal point, it's the station that matters rather than what surrounds it.

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Mick said:

George, you mention going down the 'realism road'; I often feel that what we do is in a way more realistic than what the indoor modeller does. We don't really have to create scenery, we don't need supplementary lighting, we can have trains of full scale length - just a few of the benefits of building an outdoor layout. The drawback? - well yes, it's the weather without doubt but this year has been exceptionally poor by any standards so it can only get better. I still don't think there's anything in our hobby to beat the sight of a model train running outdoors where it's captured in natural daylight in front of a backdrop of natural vegetation. They can spend however much time they please trying to replicate than on an indoor layout - it isn't going to happen.

I was thinking more along the lines (bad pun) of trying to model every rivet, twig and brick. I also fly fish, and we have a saying about those obsessive fly tyers who try to include "elbows, eyeballs and a***holes" on flies that they tie. Sure, they catch fish, but no more than generic, roughly tied patterns that can be knocked up in a fraction of the time.

I agree 100% that we have the advantage of light and natural vegetation over indoor layouts, and, IMO, there is nothing to beat lighting on a layout as we slip into twighlight. Nothing that the indoor modellers do can replicate that natural fading of the sun. We must accept discrepancies of scale and perspective, but we mustn't fall into the trap of being too critical, everyone, so far, who has seen my railway has been mesmerised by OO gauge trains running outdoors, they don't seem to notice the rough edges and dangling wires :D

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Mick!!! You've built a magic wand switch controller. i've seen those in books and magazines since the dawn of time, but I've never seen one on a layout. Nice job!

So... What if you ran a line that curved around the back of the shed so that your trains can leave the terminal in either directions, and you can turn trains if needed? i've seen this used on layouts where a big terminal doubles as two terminals for the same layout. You could have half the platforms be for trains coming through the front of the shed and the other for trains coming through the back. It would make your terminal look busy because each train that left would become another train that's arriving after a few laps around the layout.

It would even be possible to use the long double track section in the garden as a linear staging area for trains when you operate the terminal, so that a number of trains could be sitting outside waiting for their turn to arrive in the terminal.

Then again you may as well put the curve on the outside of the shed.

This is all just a crazy suggestion, feel free to ignore the Dago/Yank at will. :P

So far all of your layout work seems very meticulously done. It's really worth taking ones time. I sometimes get frustrated and want things to go faster, but then I end up with work that has been done faster... and the trains go slower if at all. Ugh. :lol:

 

george356 said:

 

 

\ said:

George' date=' you mention going down the 'realism road'; I often feel that what we do is in a way more realistic than what the indoor modeller does. We don't really have to create scenery, we don't need supplementary lighting, we can have trains of full scale length - just a few of the benefits of building an outdoor layout. The drawback? - well yes, it's the weather without doubt but this year has been exceptionally poor by any standards so it can only get better. I still don't think there's anything in our hobby to beat the sight of a model train running outdoors where it's captured in natural daylight in front of a backdrop of natural vegetation. They can spend however much time they please trying to replicate than on an indoor layout - it isn't going to happen.[/quote']

I was thinking more along the lines (bad pun) of trying to model every rivet, twig and brick. I also fly fish, and we have a saying about those obsessive fly tyers who try to include "elbows, eyeballs and a***holes" on flies that they tie. Sure, they catch fish, but no more than generic, roughly tied patterns that can be knocked up in a fraction of the time.

I agree 100% that we have the advantage of light and natural vegetation over indoor layouts, and, IMO, there is nothing to beat lighting on a layout as we slip into twighlight. Nothing that the indoor modellers do can replicate that natural fading of the sun. We must accept discrepancies of scale and perspective, but we mustn't fall into the trap of being too critical, everyone, so far, who has seen my railway has been mesmerised by OO gauge trains running outdoors, they don't seem to notice the rough edges and dangling wires :D

I agree with you guys. I had seen garden railways, but mostly pictures in books or magazines. It seemed silly to me: lack of scenery - I neglected to notice the real scenery, lack of detail- i neglected to notice the huge running space. It wasn't until I stumbled upon some youtube videos that It all clicked. It's the size of our layouts that is really impressive; mine isn't gigantic either, but it's still large for me.

Most home layouts are quite small; so the obsession with detail is understandable when the best view is up close because the layout is merely 4x8 ft. sq., or 32 sq. ft. Our planks and ply stretch out all over the place resulting in huge square footage that is spread all over the garden.

And yes, the light. Yup, trains look beautiful in afternoon light. Nothing compares.

I still love seeing a well done indoor layout, but everything looks so crammed together compared to a mainline that looks like it's going somewhere.

 

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That's it in a nutshell, Griff.

They are trying to model the universe in 32 sq ft. Consequently they have to include every blade of grass, every brick, every speck of dirt. Most layouts I look at at exhibitions are so cluttered that I can't take them in, miles are compressed into feet, sometimes inches.

Now look at a typical outdoor layout. Our trains actually go somewhere. They go away from us, sometimes up a straight line until we can barely see them. We are not constrained to 32 sq ft, all compressed together. A 32 sq ft layout unwound onto 6" decking board would be a 64 ft double track straight :o

Mouth watering yet? Imagine an indoor layout with 64ft double track straights, what size would the board have to be to accommodate that? Yet that is the sort of thing we take in our strides. Who needs "elbows, eyeballs and a***holes" when we are talking real estate?

Look at real life, look at a typical mile of track. Not much there, is there? A few poles, a bit of fencing, a few trees, maybe a bridge or better still, a viaduct ;) . Now look at an indoor layout. Look at a couple of feet of it, In 24inches there could be 5 industries, a town, a crossing, 200 people, a dozen or more vehicles and more locos in a square foot than was ever seen in real life.

Garden railway for me every time.

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traingeekboy said:

...So far all of your layout work seems very meticulously done...

In reality it's not. I honestly don't have the patience for doing things meticulously these days. It's all very much rough and ready but hopefully it will work okay.

I didn't do any work on the layout today until the afternoon and I thought I'd start by motorising the bottom set of points. I'd got a SEEP motor from the old layout that I had adapted for above baseboard use and decided to use that. On the old layout I'd obviously not used the accessory switch as it hadn't been previously wired up - only the wires supplying the power to the point motor had been soldered on, so I set about soldering on the additional wires. I then put the motor in position, drilled through the baseboard for the 6 wires to pass through, and wired the motor up to the magic wand control panel. It worked - or at least I thought it did. The points moved back and forth okay but the frog feed wasn't switching - in fact when I checked it out there was no power whatsoever to the frog. I checked over all the wiring and determined that the point motor accessory switch wasn't working at all so I discarded the whole thing and started again.

This time I decided to mount the motor beneath the baseboard but as I was fiddling around with the points and drilling through the baseboard for the operating pin I displaced the little spring that holds the blades in position - it just took flight. Believe it or not, after a good few minutes searching I found it on the floor amid all the bits of cut wires, discarded sleeving, bits of timber, and fluff from the carpet. What a lucky break - or at least it seemed to be. Go on tell me - have you ever tried fitting one of these little point springs to a Peco point?

The Peco instructions state something like:

"No need to remove the point from the board. Open up the metal tabs, remove the cover and take out the spring. Put the replacement spring in position replace the cover and fold back the metal tabs."

It really is something along those lines. It was really difficult to tell which way those metal tabs opened but eventually I prised them up and took off the plastic cover. So far so good. Now to put the spring back in place. How the heck do I hold it? Which way does it go? How am I even supposed to see it!!!!

I lost the spring again when it took flight once more but again found it on the floor and all in all I think it took me about 2 hours to get that pesky spring put back in place and now I've got a set of points that almost work, except the point blades sometimes catch on the plastic cover which I've obviously distorted slightly.

I'm not happy - we shouldn't have to do things like this. We're paying good money for something that relies on a little flimsy piece of folded metal that is the absolute devil to replace. In fact the more I think about it.......... No, I'd better not think about it.

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Go on tell me - have you ever tried fitting one of these little point springs to a Peco point?

:lol::lol::lol: Been there - got the t-shirt etc etc :x:x not quite as simple as they make it sound, is it :?: - but I found it was worth it, if it meant I didnt have to fork out for a new point ;)

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