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Sun or shadow ?


patlecq
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Good Afternnoon,

I'm Patrick and I live in the Ardennes (Belgium). I 'm ready to start building an elevated (1,25 m) HO garden railway in my backyard.

I have two suitable places to install this garden railway; one exposed to the (west-european) sun almost the whole day and the other one located at the opposite side thus in the shadow from at least 10 am up to 8 pm.

Based on your experience, could you please advice me which location would be preferable ?

Thank You.

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Hi Patrick and welcome to the forum. It's good to have additional interest from another non-UK based modeller.

I'm not familiar with the Belgium climate but I wouldn't have thought that either of the 2 possible locations would be a cause for concern. Modern track is pretty resilient and if layed correctly with the necessary expansion gaps to allow the rails to expand during warmer weather the heat should have any adverse effects. The location for my new layout faces south and should catch the sun for almost the entire day too but it's nothing that I'm at all worried about.

I would think that the choice of location, providing I'm not overlooking any significant extremes in your climate, would be determined by your personal preference. I feel much happier with some nice warm sunshine on my back and the sun, even during the colder months, helps to keep the ground drier than areas in the shade. Even today, in the middle of November, it's so pleasant outdoors in the sunshine but it feels so much cooler at the opposite side of the house. If the heat is bearable then I'd go for that one.

Looking forward to hearing about your modelling preferences.

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Welcome to the forum, Patrick :) Always nice to hear of another outdoor railway! What will you be running on your railway when it is built?

Like Mick says, I don't think it matters too much whether your layout is in permanent sun or shadow. You'll need to make some small difference to account for your choice, but I don't think there is anything stopping you with either location, so go with the area you prefer. Personally, I think I'd be greedy and try and use both - but I guess that depends how much say you have over your back garden!

Good to have your aboard, and keep us all informed about how it goes, please! :)

Dave.

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Hi Mick,

Thank you for your prompt answer.

The weather here is almost the same as in England. Maybe a little bit dryer and colder during winter time.

As far as my body is concerned I rather prefer to stay in the sun but I fear that rolling stock and plastic buildings might be affected by too long exposure to the sun.

Based on what I already read in this forum regarding track and U.V. I bought Peco track and points.

On the other hand I also understood that permanent moisture is a real problem for electric circuits and more specifically for poor electrical contacts in the points.

These are basically the reasons why I still hesitate on where I have to install my outdoor layout in the backyard.

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Yes, I really should have mentioned about not leaving any rolling stock standing in direct sunlight for any extended length of time. It was something I was going to advise against but omitted to add it to my previosu post. Run them during the hours of sunlight by all means but don't leave them standing in the baking sun any more than is deemed necessary.

Plastic building might not be the best idea although it'll all depend on the actual construction. Your safest bet in my opinion would be the large range of resin cast buildings now on the market, such as Hornby Skaledale and Bachmann Scenecraft. With a coating of exterior varnish or similar they should be fine left outdoors permanently if required.

I've never experienced any problems with moisture even when running during the depths of winter. There's few obstacles that cannot be overcome no matter which location you choose. For personal enjoyment though (sitting with a glass of beer to hand) the sunny spot will take some beating.

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Hi Steve,

My outdoor layout will represent a small station called Vonêche in the Ardennes. This station is located along a double non electrified track line with a third track for by-pass and three other tracks for goods (wood industry).

As much as possible, the layout will be at real HO scale (except peco points and double slips) i.e. a length of approx. 12 meter.

I will run belgian and luxembourg diesel locomotives and belgian diesel railcars. Traffic will be mainly long ORE Iron trains, coal trains and steel products trains as well as few passenger trains (maximum 5 coaches) and railcars. The period (era IV) will be from 1980 up to 1990.

The reasons why I decided to model this station are various: the simplicity of the track layout with a tunnel at one end and a 90° curve at the other end but also the fact that the station building and the goods shed exist at HO scale. I have now many drawings of the station as it used to be in 1981 and also hundreds of pictures. I already bought the buildings and some pieces of the dedicated rolling stock.

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Hi Mick,

Actually the main (and expensive) buildings are not plastic models but "synthetic stone" models (I don't know the english name - it's similar to the stuff used by the dentist).

I hope they will resist to belgian extreme weather conditions.

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Welcome Patrick.

Definately go for the sunny position. My layout is in the shade and is unusable all winter due to the cold, damp and gloom.

By the way, I wouldn't recommend relying on point blades for making electrical contact outdoors. I recommend the use of bonding wires and insulated frog points as in the photo.

DSCF3531.JPG.68c00773d92719615e26d1eff582b7a3.JPG

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Hi Ian,

Thank You for your reply.

Based on members' advices, I'm now negotiating with my wife to obtain the authorization to install my garden railway in the sunny location.

Unfortunately, I already bought Peco Electrofrog points and double switches. I intend to follow Allan Gartner's DCC wiring and expect a good result even during bad weather conditions.

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Hi,

A few days ago I took two pictures of the type of structures I intend to use for my elevated garden railway.

pat1.jpg

pat2.jpgssG5P.jpg

Anchors are dug in the ground, wooden pillars are inserted in the anchors and plywood baseboards (244 X 61 cm) are fixed to the pillars. I choose this type of structure because my garden railway will be semi-permanent i.e. that I will need to remove it at least once a year for garden maintenance. Baseboards have still to be covered by Derbigum (sort of thick roofing).

The pictures show the structure installed in the shadow part of my garden. I started there because I thought it was the most suitable location in the garden according to the length available and the ground almost at level.

Based on members' comments, I will transfer soon this very first part of the structure to the opposite and sunny side of the garden and then continue my garden railway experience.

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That looks excellent and extremely well made. Being able to move it easily is also a very worthwhile idea - much more portable than the breeze block base I previously used!

What I find interesting is that it looks quite bright in that location to say that's the shaded part of the garden and not what I was originally expecting at all, unless it's just the way the photo has been exposed. I would, however, still opt for some sunshine on my back and I'm certain you'll be glad you moved it once the colder, damp weather arrives.

Those 'anchors' you have used in the ground, are they similar to the 'metapost' things we have available in the UK, with a long metal spike extending from the bottom?

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Hi Mick,

I dont know Metapost in the UK, but indeed my anchors have a long metal spike extending from the bottom.

I already removed them from the ground for transfer to the sun this afternoon. I didn't anticipate that it would be so difficult to remove them. One of them is broken and its spike is still in the ground (forever I guess).

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patlecq said:

Actually the main (and expensive) buildings are not plastic models but "synthetic stone" models (I don't know the english name - it's similar to the stuff used by the dentist).

They should be fine outside, but are likely to benefit from a decent varnish!

Your structure looks really solid so far! Can we assume that planning permission for the sunny side was granted, then? :)

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Sounds like your 'anchors' are similar in design to a metapost - surprised to hear that you managed to break one though as I thought they looked strong enough to withstand almost anything.

I take it your synthetic stone models are produced in some kind of stone powder or plaster? If so then the advice I have been given previously was to ensure first that they are thoroughly dried (leave them out in the sunshine or on a low heat in the oven) and then coat all sides with sufficient coats of water seal or exterior grade varnish. The varnish might need to be thinned for the first coat to ensure it soaks into the model.

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Hi Dave,

Permission granted by the High Authority to transfer to another location in the garden but not the one I foresaw.

Four anchors are already dug in the ground and today provided that the weather is OK (a lot of fog possible), I will install the plywood baseboards on top of the pillars and adjust them to level.

As soon as it is done and sunny, I will take pictures.

It is foreseen to have all wooden parts painted in dark green.

I still hope to make a first train run before mi-december.

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Hi Mick,

Metapost anchors are indeed very strong but one of them had one of the weld broken during the removal work. As far as the spike did'nt move at all and remained firmly in the soil, I decide to break the rest of the square receptacle and to remove it alone and leave the spike in the ground. I guess that if you just dig them into the ground nothing wrong would happen.

The good shed (made with synthetic stone) is already built (glued with Loctite superglue as far as I remember) and painted with Humbrol paints. Do you fear problems ? If yes, I still have a second shed (same type) which can be assembled and painted according to outdoor use.

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patlecq said:

..The good shed (made with synthetic stone) is already built (glued with Loctite superglue as far as I remember) and painted with Humbrol paints. Do you fear problems ? If yes, I still have a second shed (same type) which can be assembled and painted according to outdoor use...

The problem with stone is that it's porous and there's the possibility that any moisture getting inside can feeze during a cold spell causing the moulding itself to crack. I was advised to firstly ensure the model was dry and then seal with a water sealant solution or exterior grade varnish to prevent water ingress and then paint with enamels afterwards. If yours is painted already then I would think that a few coats of varnish over the top would perhaps suffice - recommended for outdoor use in any case. Unless it's a very expensive piece I would be tempted to give it a try. Of course, there's also the possibility that you could bring the piece indoors for protection during the colder months.

Pop a few photos up and let's take a look.

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Hi everybody,

I put the roofing (Derbigum) on the plywood baseboard for test and I'm not very sure whether it's a good solution or not to protect it.

My concerns are:

1) Derbigum is thick and thus quiet heavy. Much more than what I thought. This extra weight might be a problem for the whole structure.

2) Do I have to foresee 5 cm extra width to protect the sides of the base board. As far as Derbigum is thick, its quiet difficult to ply it nicely at 90°.

Do you have any idea of a more suitable solution to protect the baseboard ?

Thank You.

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