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Dead motors.


Rossi
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Over the last couple of years I have had several strange occurrences with locos giving up the ghost on my outside railway.

I used Lenz Compact DCC, although I am now back on DC (H & M Duette).

Although not all locos were converted (because I could run conventional locos on address 0 on DCC) I found that a Lima 03 and a Lima Deltic (both standard items...no chips/decoders etc) ran as normal and then stopped, never more to move, although the Deltic will now run off the Duette transformer at a snails pace whilst on full throttle!

And now, both my Hornby HST's (1980's ?) having been re-wired for DC running, and having performed excellently for months, both in the space of a couple of weeks stopped dead.

I suspect the engines have burnt out, so maybe it is old age catching them up.

All other locos are doing fine.

Has anyone else come across this, and, is it possible to buy replacement motors for the HST's, or maybe just a new HST front drive only?

And...sorry to take so much time over this...I have a class 25 (old Hornby, 1980 ish), which chuggs galantly around the track, but when stopped, will not start up again without a little push downwards, and then off its trots. Any ideas on that one, or is that down to age as well?

Rossi

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Sounds like it could be old age catching up with them. I'm not familiar with the different types of motors in use but I assume that the older motors have replaceable brushes? Is there any chance it could just be those that might need replacing? (if indeed they have them).

I'm not sure if spares are directly available but I'm sure there would be plenty of similar models in working condition that could be purchased quite cheaply specifically for spares. Even the few loco's you've mentioned here would cost a small fortune to replace with new models at current prices.

The class 25 problem sounds like something that the majority of models encounter at some point in their lives. A little push along (or downwards as in your case) just gets them underway and their momentum is then sufficient to keep them moving. It sounds like there's something binding, a bit of a dry spot somewhere perhaps. In all cases I would suggest firstly ensuring that all wheel treads and pick up wires are clean and free of dirt/debris so you can be sure that power is being applied. Check around the axles for any accumulated fluff. Then, following the manufacturers instructions if you have them (check online by the model number if not) sparingly apply some suitable lubrication at the points specified by the manufacturer. Again, if the motor has replacebale brushes then check to see if they might require replacing.

I'm sorry that I can't be more helpful but perhaps others have more useful recommendations.

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I had a similar sounding problem with my Hornby Flying Scotsman just after I'd build my layout. When I took it apart to have a look, little polystyrene beads from the box it came in (which I was still using for storage) had found their way inside the gearing and the motor. Once I had spent some time with a pair of fine tweezers and added a touch of lubrication to the necessary parts (the beads had soaked up a lot of oil) it runs like a dream once more.

Needless to say, its now wrapped in tissue paper before going back in that box and long term I'm looking for a different way to store the loco.

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Yeah I would agree what has already been said.

Those Limas probably have the pancake motor. Open it up and take everything apart and clean it with some alcohol. Then get some plastic safe grease and apply small amounts of the grease to the gears. i just did this to my lima and it should be running much better now.

Before thinking you have burned out motors I would first look at the wheel wipers and any other contact points for dirt. Even the wheels may be dirty, have you checked that? usually it's a couple different dirty things that add up to poor contact.

If you haven't taken apart a loco before, an old engine like that is the perfect place to start. You should only need a set of small screw drivers. I also keep tweezers and small needle nose pliers handy. I use alligator clip leeds and a power pack to test the engine. i work over a tray so the parts don't fly away. Sometimes I tape screws to a piece of paper as I go so they don't get lost. These are good tools to have on hand for any model railroader, and it feels good when you learn to service your own locos. (I always look for nice looking but "broken" locos on ebay ;) )

Once the body shell is removed you can test right at the engine contacts and then work your way out to see what portion is bad. For instance if you put the contacts on the wheels and nothing turns you know it's probably an issue between the wheels and wipers. If you test at the motor leads and the motor makes strange buzzes but nothing turns it's probably binding in the gears.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks for the replies everybody, lots to ponder over. I must admit I've never really given much thought to the problem, just accepting that the engines had run their course so to speak. Now you're all making me wonder.

Never stripped a motor down before, but having read the advice, I really have nothing to loose on those old engines.

About two months ago, the HSt's were giving out some noise like a wailing Banshee, so I dropped a little oil on the gearing...still not much difference. Then I dropped a little at the side of the motor where I could see a spindle of sorts, and that cured it. I am now wondering if I overdid it and possibly it gave root to the problem.

Either way, I'm going to start stripping!!!

The next few weeks bring family and friends over, so I'll maybe leave it until they've gone back, but I'll keep you up to date.

Thanks again,

Rossi

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Very quick up to date memo...

Thanks to traingeekboy (do we not have an easier monica for you)...

I had a spare hour, so started to strip down one of the HST's that appeared dead and gone. I cleaned all the contacts and took off all the gearing and was surprised by all the "gunk". I dipped all the cogs in a solution of WD 40, then wiped everything clean. I now think, that some months ago I overdid the lubrication, because the dirt and debris was caked on.

Anyway...Onto the rails, (without any gearing back in place) a boost from the trusted H and M and off the motor went at something like the desired speed of an HST 125!

Now, fresh from the "works" she's been running around the layout without any fuss.

Thanks again for the advice.

Rossi

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I'm glad you had such good results. You can refer to me as the yank or the dego, ha ha. Geeky also works as does TGB. You can also call me Griffith as that's the proper name I was given; Welsh ancestors obviously.

WD40 makes me cringe. It's a strong solvent. Also, be careful when using these things as even small amounts can have grave effects later in life. I would advise gloves. My biggest worry is that it may eat at the plastic the gears are made from, that is why i use alcohol for cleaning.

I think most locos come from the factory over lubricated. My n Scale Atlas diesels always had oil sitting in the box upon purchase.

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Although I've had some of my loco's for 10 years, they've only had a couple of hours use as they were more or less put straight into storage when we moved. They've only seen daylight again in the last 6 or 7 months when I got them out of the loft with every intention of selling them. My Class 42 "Warship" refused to move until I lubricated the motor and gears and only then after manually turning the motor to free the siezed gear train. The lubrication had obviously dried out during storage. Luckily, finding this site gave me new hope that I didn't have to sell up and could make use of the outdoor space.

Glad we have a choice of handles for you traingeekboy . If you don't mind Griffith then that's what I'll stick with - Much more personal... :D

P.S - Love the photo with the Cat...

Duncan

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Ok, Griffith works. Glad you like the photo. I considered removing it, but I think it helps to put a face on who you're talking to on here.

Ahhh the 42's I saw one at work in grumpy grandads video and immediately fell in love. Those are just superbly awkward and beautiful.

My small collection of Italian and French trains were pretty much like yours; purchased then filed away for future reference. I can't see selling any of them as they are special. Sure I want some cool new trains, but the ol' Lima and Jouef are still going to see track time.

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Thanks for starting this thread, I also have a 1980s Hornby HST set that appears to be dead. This hasn't moved for years though and didn't run when I tried around a month ago. It has given me a nudge to strip it down and see if I can breath some new life in to it.

I also have a 1980s Hornby Mallard in Green which has a few issues. One of the drive wheels has sheared off which looks like an obvious fix, not so obvious is that the the tender rides higher at the end coupled to the loco. This means the drive wheels don't get full contact with the track. I though it would be possible to bend the coupling which is a pin back down but there is no give in the metal so don't want to break it. Answers on a postcard..

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i had a discussion on an Italian forum called trenoincasa.it, where i exlaiined one of the issues with the lima trucks and motors.

My first run video has a loco that is screaching it's way around the tracks. It sounds like bad bearings. I took it apart and discovered that the sound was coming from the wheels rubbing on the truck frame. i still need to get a wheel puller so I can put some spacer washers in there. i think i might get delrin ones as delrin plastic is very slippery on it's own.

Oh oh oh Just had a thought! :idea: I have these spacers that come with Kadee N scale trucks for those cars that need the body lifted a little bit. I have tons of them. They should be just the right size for this job.

Anyway here is the picture.

6391263393_4d3bc9af54.jpg

The yellow arrows show the force that is being applied. The red ones show how much play there is in the axles. if you have an old Lima and it has the sideways pancake motor built right into the truck, this may cure some of it's poor performance issues. I find that locos with poor performance usually result from a couple minor flaws in the design.

Hope this helps guys.

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