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(moved) RevolutioN Trains wheel flanges


mick
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I went up into the attic this evening to take a look at the wheels on one of the IWA log carriers as I was curious as to how they compared with those on some of my other RTR wagons. It would seem that fine(r)scale wheel flanges are going to be the norm and I'm a bit concerned about that.

I took a Bachmann wagon wheel from my spares box, not a good comparison because the spare is a 14mm which actually measures 14.14mm diameter over the wheel rim and 16.03mm across the flange. Anyway, for the sake of argument that gives us close on 1mm of flange all round the wheel by my calculations.

The following photo shows the 14mm Bachmann wheel below the 12mm IWA wheel.

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The IWA log carrier wheels are 12mm diameter and the example I removed from a wagon measured 12.11mm over the wheel tread and 13.14mm across the flange.

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This finer scale wheel allows us only 0.5mm of flange all round the wheel which is seen more clearly in the following photo. It is extremely fine!

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However, it's not an entirely new thing because I also measured a 12mm diameter wheel from one of my latest Accurascale wagons which came in at 11.84mm over the wheel tread and 12.98mm across the flange.

It's clear that unless your track is perfectly level you ARE going to have problems with these high detail wagons derailing and in my opinion that's not a good thing, especially where garden railways are concerned.

Edited by mick
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That is surprise to see such fine scale wheels on a RTR model but I guess that is the way things are going. Those flanges look smaller than realistic to me though.

Was your track always like that since you laid or ballasted it and the wagons have just shown it up or is it that the track has developed the slope over time?

One of the things I've been considering is putting a deliberate cant on curves but this would be very gentle and limited to maybe 1mm rail height difference. I know that some modellers do put a cant on their curves to emulate the real railway and it can look quite good. I suppose that your slope is with the outside rail down which was putting the train off-balance?

What does the wheel profile look like front on, Is it conical? As it is the conical shape of the wheels that guide rail wheels and the flange is really just a back up to prevent things going wrong.

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42 minutes ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

...Was your track always like that since you laid or ballasted it and the wagons have just shown it up or is it that the track has developed the slope over time?..

I'm not sure, it's not something that I've noticed before and I've not had trouble with any other stock derailing in that spot previously. It's a double thickness plywood track base that spans across from the large viaduct to the elevated section along the bottom of the garden. Beneath it are two angle irons to try prevent any warping or bowing. I think the likely explanation is that I haven't secured the baseboard perfectly level in the first place and these fine flanges have simply caught me out.

49 minutes ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

..What does the wheel profile look like front on, Is it conical? As it is the conical shape of the wheels that guide rail wheels and the flange is really just a back up to prevent things going wrong.

I'll have to get back to you with that one. It's a bit late to be going up in the attic again tonight. I'll take a look tomorrow and see if I can grab a photo.

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I'm not sure the following photos will tell us a great deal but hopefully this one, slightly out of focus due to using my phone camera, is a profile view.

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And the next photo shows the clearance of the flanges on the code 75 Finescale track used in the attic.

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Looking at the wheelset sitting on code 75 rails I'm left wondering if we really need such fine flanges, especially if it's going to result in problematic operation on anything other than perfectly laid trackwork.

I'm also left wondering what the outlook is for the new breed of locomotives from the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex if these extra fine flanges are to become the norm with other items of stock? Not everyone has perfectly level trackwork and not everyone coming into the hobby understands the need for it to be so.

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1 hour ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

...If you were to swap the wheels for a Hornby or Bachmann pack, I'd bet you could easily sell the finescale wheels for more.

That's something I had considered but the log carriers were never intended for the garden layout and they run okay up in the attic where they belong BUT I do relish the challenge of getting them running satisfactorily outdoors too. Looking at the forecast it doesn't seem like I'll be getting much chance to do anything out there in the coming days but when I can manage it I'll be going over the track again with my miniature spirit levels to make sure it's all as level as possible.

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On 2/12/2022 at 3:07 PM, mick said:

I'm also left wondering what the outlook is for the new breed of locomotives from the likes of Accurascale and Cavalex if these extra fine flanges are to become the norm with other items of stock? Not everyone has perfectly level trackwork and not everyone coming into the hobby understands the need for it to be so.

I guess they must have looked at their market and determined that the modellers they are aiming at is the detailed end that would probably be likely to fit finescale wheels anyway and be using Code75 or finer track. We are used to the traditional manufacturers catering for the mass market and finescale modellers having to adapt. I guess RevolutioN have worked out the numbers to make a profit only out of high-detail modellers.

I've got one bit of trackwork up at Dad's where the cork has expanded under 4th radius track causing it to tip to the outside, we've not had more than one coach take a dislike to it so far. I've offered to sort it but been declined.😂

Edited by Clay Mills Junction
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I think you only have to look at YouTube videos and layouts on forums to see that many modellers intending purchasing these 'scale' locos and wagons are just modellers using propriety track components. There are already a number of modellers who have experienced problems when running the IWA wagons and who, like me, have found the need to attend to slight problems with their track alignments or who have had to loosen bogie securing screws to introduce a bit more flexibility. I would think that true finescale modellers are very much in the minority.

Again I would like to stress that I'm aware of obvious faults in my track laying and fully understand that it's probably the primary reason for my own derailments.

I'll be honest, I wasn't aware of the wheel flange measurements when I ordered the IWA wagons and nor was I aware of similar standards being used with my Accurascale mineral wagons. It never really bothered me because up to taking the log carriers out into the garden I hadn't experienced any problems with them that couldn't be resolved straight away.

I remain of the opinion that in some respects it's gone slightly beyond what the average modeller needs. Yes it's nice to have finely detailed models, they really do look stunning, but we need them to operate faultlessly without us having to change or relay our layouts or we're going to become disillusioned with it all rather quickly.

Fortunately my IWA's are destined to be run indoors on the attic layout where my attempt at laying track has improved slightly (though not by much). Would I buy any similar wagons for running outdoors? I don't think so unless I can remedy the faults that currently exist out there.

 

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