Lima grain hoppers.

[Clay Mills Junction]

If anyone remembers a year ago I had a go at some Lima grain hoppers. Converting to kadees and shortening the buffer shanks to bring them a bit closer for running on the gentler radii outdoors. I think this was in my journal.

To make them fit with time and location, they are still going to need some modification. The advertising boards on them came off in the mid-70s and they were repainted in green with GRAINFLOW on the sides. I came across a video on Youtube where someone had removed the advertising boardings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9vLVbpCFO0

I didn't see how to do it before but to be honest that doesn't look too difficult. I think I'm at 6 wagons that I can turn into a rake, I've still got some wagons not fully converted to kadees so I think the last wagons will be converter wagons with a tension lock to marry up with the other speedlink wagons.

I'm not worried about rivet counter detail so the 1mm ride height error or whether the model has air or vacuum brake details, the wrong springs or whatever.

One thing I am interested in is the wheels and the brass bearing caps that are featured in that video. Some of the plastic axle recesses are a little mangled looking and the wheels are a bit rougher than modern available ones. Perhaps a 10 pack of wheelsets would improve running but are the brass bearing caps are a worthwhile modification? If anyone has any experience that would be useful to know.

I'll update when I've butchered the first wagon.

[mick]

10 hours ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

....One thing I am interested in is the wheels and the brass bearing caps that are featured in that video. Some of the plastic axle recesses are a little mangled looking and the wheels are a bit rougher than modern available ones. Perhaps a 10 pack of wheelsets would improve running but are the brass bearing caps are a worthwhile modification? If anyone has any experience that would be useful to know....

That's something I was contemplating doing with my Hornby 21t hoppers but I've no experience of using brass axle bearings either. There are different types too which confused me. I would imagine they'd make a great deal of difference as opposed to the bare plastic.

I have 2 Grainflow wagons but other than some weathering all I've done with them is add Kadees. He mentions in the video about the Bachmann model being incorrect, which perhaps it is, but they look the part to me. I most certainly wouldn't be worried about a 1mm ride height difference. We're just looking for an impression of things not trying to replicate every little detail. Getting them running smoothly is the priority.

[Clay Mills Junction]

Yes, I'd almost certainly not be bothered by the incorrect number of ribs on the Bachmann model. What does bother me is the price, I got 8 Lima wagons for the price of 1 Bachmann. 2 of the Limas are the yellow and blue which seem to be more brittle plastic. I'll use them as practice wagons but even to come out of it with 6 is better. I'll have to keep a record of price for comparison.

[Riddles]

Incredible as it may seem, the tooling for the Bachmann wagons is over 50 years old. Commonly known as "whisky wagons," they were introduced in 1966 by British Trix who had them made by Liliput. They were fitted with Peco/Dublo couplings but had mounting positions for Tri-ang tension lock couplings. Liliput retained ownership of the toolings and supplied the British market directly after British Trix folded. In 1993 Kader Industries took over Liliput and the model passed into the Bachmann Branchline range the following year. It is still going strong and three different wagons are currently supplied in the "Whiskies Galore" train set with a sound fitted Class 20.

With regard to changing the wheels of the Lima wagons, the axle length differs from other manufacturers and Hornby/Bachmann wheels do not simply drop in!

Edited January 21, 2022 by Riddles
Additional info added

[mick]

3 hours ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

...What does bother me is the price....

Geeez, I see what you mean! Just had a look on ebay and some are asking over £40 for the Bachmann 'Grainflow' wagon.

The advantage with the Lima model is that you can afford to change the wheels and add bearings if that's possible/necessary and once you've done all you need to do you can safely weather or modify them to your hearts content without fear of making a mess of something more valuable. I imagine it will also give you a lot more satisfaction once you've completed them.

[mick]

58 minutes ago, Riddles said:

Incredible as it may seem, the tooling for the Bachmann wagons is over 50 years old...

Blimey, I hadn't even considered how old they might be. That's ridiculous, especially as they're still manufacturing them to this day. I assumed the ones I purchased in the old style Bachmann boxes were probably the final batch but I see there's a Catalogue No. 33-132 in the new style boxes available brand new for over £50 including postage.

[ba14eagle]

I have put brass bearing caps in my Hornby PGA wagons, as most of the holes were badly worn. I changed the axles too iirc, to metal ones. Its worth the effort to get wagons that run freely and the axles dont fallout, when you pick them up!

Edited January 24, 2022 by ba14eagle
missing word

[Clay Mills Junction]

On 1/21/2022 at 4:40 PM, Riddles said:

With regard to changing the wheels of the Lima wagons, the axle length differs from other manufacturers and Hornby/Bachmann wheels do not simply drop in!

That was one reason for the axle bearings. I was hoping that the bearings could be glued that little bit wider to accomodate new wheels. Having got the bearings, I'm a little shocked at how small they are. I think I'll leave off making that change until I absolutely have to, i.e. if I have problems with them through Streamline points.

I made a start on the body of the first one cutting out the section where the advertising boards were. Following the video in post #1 above, my first discovery is that putting in the back piece as per the video means the top won't fit back on. So I had to rip the things out, cut the back down and re-glue. I've put some filler to even up the section and will file it down tomorrow or later tonight if it dries. My 1mm plasticard is a little thinner than the Lima plastic body so my filler is a little thicker than the guy in the video's.

Edited February 5, 2022 by Clay Mills Junction
Adding photos

[mick]

Pleased to see you've made a start on the grain hoppers and looking forward to following along as you make further progress.

Yes the brass bearings are very small (what size were you expecting?) so take it from me, make a start while you're still able to see them properly. You might as well do them while you've got the wagons taken apart and it should give you much smoother running. It will all be worth it once you've got them finished.

[Clay Mills Junction]

42 minutes ago, mick said:

Yes the brass bearings are very small (what size were you expecting?)

Maybe about 4mm in diameter, these are about 1.5mm diameter. I'll order some Hornby wheels and hope that I can make them fit with the bearings even if the bearings kind of stick out of the axle boxes on the outside.

I've filed down the filler, I actually think that is quite a good surface now. I think with knowledge from this, the next 5 should be easier.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Clay Mills Junction
Add photo

[roddy]

I bought bearing some years ago. They were described as 2mm. No idea what wheelsets I was using, but they all worked perfectly.

[mick]

That's looking very neat Barry. It makes the excess number of vertical bars on my Bachmann models so much more obvious. 

[Clay Mills Junction]

Wagon two, another of the 'VAT 69' ones didn't go so well. The plastic body had become very brittle, totally different feel to the first.

I suppose over a 30 year life they could have been in very different environments. Fortunately I have spare yellow ones. The Yellow ones all have a blue chassis which is incredibly brittle and I wasn't going to use. So one of the bodies came off and the rest of it was thrown away. Fortunately the body isn't too brittle and as it will be painted later the colour doesn't matter.

[Clay Mills Junction]

Wet Sunday, an opportunity to restart some forgotten projects.

Due to the brittleness of the plastic I'm going to stop at 4 wagons.

This video shows they were mostly very grubby in the 80s so any detail was almost lost. If anybody can identify the tanker wagons in the rake it would be useful. I have a speedlink VBA but the tanker at the front and the tankers at the rear (TTA?) @15:00

Edited April 23, 2023 by Clay Mills Junction
Add video link

[mick]

On 23/04/2023 at 21:18, Clay Mills Junction said:

....If anybody can identify the tanker wagons in the rake it would be useful. I have a speedlink VBA but the tanker at the front and the tankers at the rear (TTA?)

I'm sure the rear ones are TTA's, at least they look very similar to the TTA wagons I have. The front wagon looks to be some type of 'tanktainer' and I have to admit that it's the first time I've come across, or at least noticed one, on a Scottish rake. I'll have to have a closer look through some of my books and see if I've got any photos as it could be a useful model for me too.

[Clay Mills Junction]

On 4/27/2023 at 4:52 PM, mick said:

I'm sure the rear ones are TTA's, at least they look very similar to the TTA wagons I have. The front wagon looks to be some type of 'tanktainer' and I have to admit that it's the first time I've come across, or at least noticed one, on a Scottish rake. I'll have to have a closer look through some of my books and see if I've got any photos as it could be a useful model for me too.

That seems a good call on the front wagon. I've browsed Paul Bartlett's photo site but not found an exact match. If containerised then it could be something like a 4 wheel freightliner chassis FBA/ FBB with tanker on top?

[ba14eagle]

Are they whiskey tanks?

[mick]

On 29/04/2023 at 02:02, Clay Mills Junction said:

That seems a good call on the front wagon. I've browsed Paul Bartlett's photo site but not found an exact match. If containerised then it could be something like a 4 wheel freightliner chassis FBA/ FBB with tanker on top?

It's understandable I suppose but it's a pity that the main focus with any type of media is almost always on the locomotive rather than the stock following behind. There are several occasions that I've come across where it would be great to be able to identify individual items of stock. I know nothing about 4-wheel Freightliner chassis but it sounds probable to me. Most of my containerised loads are on 4 wheel PFA wagons.