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Rock Valley Garden Railway


Archie
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A train show? That's the first time I've heard anyone mention a train show for a long, long time.

I'm pleased to hear you've been able to acquire some new loco's. I guess there are still bargains to be had if you look round carefully. I would ned to get those deflectors/ploughs weathered on the 60 though..is that how they are sold or are they a replacement part?

I remember working on 60008 when it was named 'Gypsum Queen II' and wore Loadhaul livery. I think the orange and black really suited them. I have a spare 60007 in Loadhaul livery that I've always intended renaming to 60008 but I never seem to get round to doing anything about it. I used to love the sight and sound of the Deltics when I started on the railway in 1980, just around the time the last of them were being withdrawn unfortunately. D9003 or 55003 as it was at the time only lasted until the end of that year.

Congratulations on getting the video done, it's good to see someone making progress especially when the weather's not been too good.

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I managed to pick them up near the end of the show at 55 for both ( so 25 for the Deltic and 30 for 60008), and the 60 is considerably better detailed than a railroad diesel at less than half the price so I'm pretty happy with how it went. As for the ploughs I think thats how they are sold, in factory fresh condition.

29 Years of 60001 - The Class 60 Group

I believe they were quickly repainted in black, or just turned black from all the grime, so I'll tend to toning it down.

I think the Loadhaul livery suits the 60 though I still prefer the sectorisation livery, now I just need a suitable rake of wagons for it to pull, or I could just keep on using mk3s and mixes of big four and early BR wagons and vans.

It was nice to get back on the railway today, though it started raining whilst I was cleaning the track so I had to go in for a bit. There are still many jobs to do so hopefully there is a final few warm sunny days to work on the track.

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I don't remember them like that at all, certainly not that colour. I'm not even sure they're the same shape as I remember them, though it's probably 15 years since I last saw any. Being as it's 60001 in your photo I wonder if they later changed the design? You can see I never took much notice, or had much interest come to that, when I was on the railway.

My fondest recollections are of class 60s working Gypsum, steel and stone trains. The trouble is that none of those come cheap.

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My secondary school backed on to the BR Technical Centre's test track to the west of Derby. I remember hearing something different on the track during a sports lesson in late 1989, it wasn't a diesel I recognised the sound of. That was the last lesson of the day so after school I hurried home and went straight out and down to one of the bridges just in time to see the back of 60001 as it headed back to Mickleover, that being its last test run of that day.

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19 hours ago, mick said:

I don't remember them like that at all, certainly not that colour. I'm not even sure they're the same shape as I remember them, though it's probably 15 years since I last saw any. Being as it's 60001 in your photo I wonder if they later changed the design? You can see I never took much notice, or had much interest come to that, when I was on the railway.

My fondest recollections are of class 60s working Gypsum, steel and stone trains. The trouble is that none of those come cheap.

60008 seems to not have had the gray ploughs at some point

[photo removed due to copyright message]

though theyre so covered in grime its hard to tell, it also seems to have been lacking them in a couple of photos, I dont know the procedure on when ploughs are on or off but most photos of other locomotives have ploughs.

I could potentially 3d print some suitable wagons and paint them up, its just finding or making a suitable design for a stone hopper, I cant justify the price of a new or even used wagon rake.

18 hours ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

My secondary school backed on to the BR Technical Centre's test track to the west of Derby. I remember hearing something different on the track during a sports lesson in late 1989, it wasn't a diesel I recognised the sound of. That was the last lesson of the day so after school I hurried home and went straight out and down to one of the bridges just in time to see the back of 60001 as it headed back to Mickleover, that being its last test run of that day.

you must've been lucky to catch it just as it went past. The ploughs definatley look out of place, even in real life.

I feel that only 5-10 years ago locomotives were a lot cheaper. I have copious amounts of lima and hornby diesels that I got for around £30 a while ago, maybe its just inflation, or lack of cheap new locos, or maybe its just me.

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36 minutes ago, Archie said:

60008 seems to not have had the gray ploughs at some point

though theyre so covered in grime its hard to tell, it also seems to have been lacking them in a couple of photos, I dont know the procedure on when ploughs are on or off but most photos of other locomotives have ploughs....

I think the ones on 60001 look like some some kind of prototype. They're not the same on the photo of 60008 which you posted (but which I had to remove due to the copyright message across it!) and those are how I remember them. The grey ones look ghastly in comparison.

40 minutes ago, Archie said:

...I feel that only 5-10 years ago locomotives were a lot cheaper. I have copious amounts of lima and hornby diesels that I got for around £30 a while ago, maybe its just inflation, or lack of cheap new locos, or maybe its just me.

It's true. Prices of new and used models have sky rocketed these past few years and it's getting to the point now where I'm wondering if it's really worth it. It's strange because some of the smaller independent manufacturers seem to offer much better value for money, along with quality, than the more established ones.

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2 hours ago, mick said:

I think the ones on 60001 look like some some kind of prototype. They're not the same on the photo of 60008 which you posted (but which I had to remove due to the copyright message across it!) and those are how I remember them. The grey ones look ghastly in comparison.

It's true. Prices of new and used models have sky rocketed these past few years and it's getting to the point now where I'm wondering if it's really worth it. It's strange because some of the smaller independent manufacturers seem to offer much better value for money, along with quality, than the more established ones.

I think latter examples were black, I'll tone mine down to suit. Do you recall any 60s running without ploughs? many pictures of 60008 show it with no plough at all...

my bad for copying that photo, it should be covered under fair use, but better to be safe. in future I'll just link to the website.

I think the hattons 66 (with its shortcomings) is a good example of what can be achieved for a fairly reasonable price, theyre on sale for 120 which I don't think is bad for such a detailed model, ill still stick to old Hornby, Lima and Bachmann stuff though.

I've found some files for an IOA wagon, its slightly out of period but I'm more of a collector than a rivet counter so I think they'll look good with my 60, 47 and 37, I might make one to see how it comes out.

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2 hours ago, Archie said:

...Do you recall any 60s running without ploughs? many pictures of 60008 show it with no plough at all...

Not in the time I was on the railway Archie, they always had ploughs and looked much better for it.

2 hours ago, Archie said:

...I think the hattons 66 (with its shortcomings) is a good example of what can be achieved for a fairly reasonable price, theyre on sale for 120 which I don't think is bad for such a detailed model, ill still stick to old Hornby, Lima and Bachmann stuff though.....

I sent my Hattons class 66 back and didn't bother getting it replaced. That was probably the start of my dismay with recent products. I ordered a sound fitted model but it really didn't sound good at all and then there were bits missing, bits falling off, the wobbling....  I don't think I've ordered from them since but that's not really a reflection on them but rather on the hobby as a whole.

I think for our purposes outdoors the less detailed products are more suited and quite often much cheaper to obtain. I know I might sound a right one for saying that when I've purchased so many detailed models in the past but I've learned the hard way.

I'm not familiar with IOA wagons, but yes, if you can print them off then why not have a go and see how they turn out.  We don't have to stick rigidly to period.

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18 hours ago, mick said:

Not in the time I was on the railway Archie, they always had ploughs and looked much better for it.

I sent my Hattons class 66 back and didn't bother getting it replaced. That was probably the start of my dismay with recent products. I ordered a sound fitted model but it really didn't sound good at all and then there were bits missing, bits falling off, the wobbling....  I don't think I've ordered from them since but that's not really a reflection on them but rather on the hobby as a whole.

I think for our purposes outdoors the less detailed products are more suited and quite often much cheaper to obtain. I know I might sound a right one for saying that when I've purchased so many detailed models in the past but I've learned the hard way.

I'm not familiar with IOA wagons, but yes, if you can print them off then why not have a go and see how they turn out.  We don't have to stick rigidly to period.

I'd heard good things about the Hatton's 66 but I have never had one, but its a shame the model is like that (I remember hearing something about axle boxes falling apart but I didn't look too deep into it) my Bachmann 25 died and its made me reluctant to buy anything high detailed and complex, I think the decoder died but id need to get a blanking plate to see if thats the problem... I think ill be sticking to cheap Hornby and Lima locos for now.

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20 minutes ago, Archie said:

I'd heard good things about the Hatton's 66 but I have never had one, but its a shame the model is like that (I remember hearing something about axle boxes falling apart but I didn't look too deep into it) my Bachmann 25 died and its made me reluctant to buy anything high detailed and complex, I think the decoder died but id need to get a blanking plate to see if thats the problem... I think ill be sticking to cheap Hornby and Lima locos for now.

The axle boxes were indeed one problem Archie but maybe I was just unlucky with mine.

Do you have a blanking plate? I've got both 8 and 21 pin if you need any so just drop me a message and I can pop them in the post to you tomorrow.

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I totally agree with you both on the costs. In the manufacturers defence they have been hearing from modellers "more detail," "more realism."

I do find that the ever greater realism is leading to ever greater fragility. Models are less handleable, some are much less tolerant of track imperfections and some are less reliable. Add to that the cost to do all of this and the low quantities of model runs (a delibrate ploy by manufacturers or just what they think they can sell?) that lead to new models fetching more on the used market than they did new.

I think there is a balance; the oldest Hornby, Lima, Mainline etc. stuff does have its deficiencies - poor low speed running, lack of pickups, lack of weight and existence of traction tyres.

The price of the old stuff does seem to have gone beyond its value. Whether that is because the new stuff has gone up so much or scarcity, even accounting for the creep of inflation doesn't explain it all. It does seem to be demand led and people are willing to pay those prices for older stuff, I just don't know who those people are.

 

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2 hours ago, mick said:

The axle boxes were indeed one problem Archie but maybe I was just unlucky with mine.

Do you have a blanking plate? I've got both 8 and 21 pin if you need any so just drop me a message and I can pop them in the post to you tomorrow.

Thanks very for offering but I'll pass, I think the problem is with something else that caused the decoder to pop, and I'd rather not give out my address on the internet when I can avoid it for obvious reasons. I'm sure the local model shop will have some spare as they do decoder fitting

 

1 hour ago, Clay Mills Junction said:

I totally agree with you both on the costs. In the manufacturers defence they have been hearing from modellers "more detail," "more realism."

I do find that the ever greater realism is leading to ever greater fragility. Models are less handleable, some are much less tolerant of track imperfections and some are less reliable. Add to that the cost to do all of this and the low quantities of model runs (a delibrate ploy by manufacturers or just what they think they can sell?) that lead to new models fetching more on the used market than they did new.

I think there is a balance; the oldest Hornby, Lima, Mainline etc. stuff does have its deficiencies - poor low speed running, lack of pickups, lack of weight and existence of traction tyres.

The price of the old stuff does seem to have gone beyond its value. Whether that is because the new stuff has gone up so much or scarcity, even accounting for the creep of inflation doesn't explain it all. It does seem to be demand led and people are willing to pay those prices for older stuff, I just don't know who those people are.

 

I agree, theres definatley a fine line between quality and price, and it might be one thats just impossible to hit. Theres definatley high demand thats currently filled by exclusively used models. The problem is none of the budget offerings have really advanced, Hornby is still selling the same ringfield railroad 47s for £70, so I can see why people would buy £50 lima or Hornby diesels from the 80s and 90s. They're effectively the same model...

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7 minutes ago, Archie said:

... I'd rather not give out my address on the internet when I can avoid it for obvious reasons.....

Too right. I wouldn't expect you to post any personal information on the forum but a private message via the forum messaging system would be safe enough for anything like that should you need to in the future.

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19 minutes ago, mick said:

Too right. I wouldn't expect you to post any personal information on the forum but a private message via the forum messaging system would be safe enough for anything like that should you need to in the future.

Yeah, it would be fine, Ill still go to the model shop (as gives me an excuse to go) but thanks for offering.

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30 minutes ago, Archie said:

Thanks very for offering but I'll pass, I think the problem is with something else that caused the decoder to pop,

Do you have bus filters on your railway for DCC? Decoder frying tends to be spikes caused by momentary spike shorts across point frogs and stuff. Bus filters can absorb those as can a car brake bulb inline. The bus filter is just a capacitor and resistor so cheap and easy to make, I got the instructions from Brian Lambert's DCC page - haven't had a decoder blow on my Dad's layout since I installed them.

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Ah, still likely to be power spikes. As decoders are designed to detect and run DC they'll be fine with the current of standard controllers. As long as your power source isn't a car battery 😂.

If you get a blanking plate in there then you've lost nothing and don't have the danger of it blowing.

The inline car bulb works with DC too. In fact my Dad's controller from when he had his 3-rail as a boy has one built in.

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right, I'll see about giving it a go. From my memory it stopped on a strait section, I took it apart and tried running it inside with the body off, and the decoder popped and started smoking, at least I think it came from the decoder, although it could have come from the PCB underneath...

 

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