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Hello All

I enjoyed reading your posts and seeing the photos of your railways. There are some wonderful creations, which are I am sure an inspiration to anyone contemplating building a garden railway.

Over the last few years I have been experimenting with a garden railway, and I thought some of my experience may be of interest.

It was to be ‘a bit of fun’, not a serious scale model, of course, since the plants and foliage are way too big. Against that, the space available means that the scale track length can represent a few kilometers rather than 500 metres at OO gauge. I chose OO for cost reasons, and because the family already had a selection of rolling stock at that scale.

The concept was to mount the track on sections of a ‘baseboard’ (not much wider than the track itself) which would be laid out in the garden for the summer and stored under cover for the winter.  This would protect the track from the worst weather, and would allow most of the work of pinning the track down and wiring ‘off-site’ during the winter.

The first task was to make a detailed plan of the garden, including the locations of plants and other immovable features. I then decided on a track route, and began negotiations with the Authorities over demolition orders for plants which could not be circumnavigated! I kept to a simple single-track figure of eight, with a station, passing loop and siding at each end. For me, the attraction of a garden railway is in long sweeping curves, weaving amongst foliage, and dramatic bridges and viaducts. My garden, in a Manchester suburb, is about 18 metres long, and the track follows a bed which extends down one side of the grass. 

The baseboard was cut from 5mm plastic sheet , sold as ‘foamed PVC’, which I found easy to cut using a jigsaw, and it will take screws like wood. It has proved durable and strong enough. The sections are 50 mm wide (for single-track) x  1 – 2 metres long, joined with a short lapping piece and stainless steel screws. During winter, the sections are hung up indoors on a couple of portable clothes-rails.

I used Peco Streamline track, code 100, pinned down to the baseboard by brass pins. For underlay/ballast I used the Peco product.  The railway had been outdoors for 5 or 6 summers since 2011, and the basic track survived the elements well. However, the underlay disintegrated, or maybe it was eaten by slugs, stolen by birds for their nests, or otherwise vandalized. I replaced the underlay with roofing felt, which looks ballast-like from a distance, and weathers well, but does not conform to the sleepers like the foam underlay. The other track problem encountered concerned the points: there is a small over-centre spring used to hold the points set which is subject to corrosion and clogging with earth. The clogging can usually be cured by a water jet from a syringe. I have had to replace some of the springs (obtainable as spares from Peco) and it is, shall we say, a challenging task!

As regards the electric power supply, I initially used conventional pick-up from the track (not DCC). I bridged all fishplates with soldered wires, and ran a cable down the garden to avoid voltage drop problems.  The result was satisfactory initially, but the track needed laborious cleaning before use, and the loco wheels needed regular cleaning. These problems led me to consider on-board battery power and radio-control. The modern Lithium Polymer batteries are small and lightweight, and I have converted four locomotives now to this system (obtained from Micron Radio Control).  This gives a run time of 1 – 2 hours depending on the usage and the loco (different locos have surprisingly differing current draws). Of course it removes the need for any wiring and isolation switches in the outdoor environment, and several locomotives can be run on the same track, which is particularly useful on the long tracks available in the garden. The points (6 in total) are not power-operated.

The bridges I used are the commonly available plastic kits, and they survive well outside for the summers. For platforms and viaduct arches I used expanded polystyrene, recycled from packaging, cut to shape and painted, which survives surprisingly well considering the material’s low strength. Other buildings and trackside items are deployed when the railway is in use, but stored indoors.

All in all it has been a pleasurable hobby, and has been much appreciated by visiting grandchildren, but as with any outdoor activity, we are always at the mercy of our British weather!

Peter

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40 minutes ago, Virginia Rail said:

I have had to replace some of the springs (obtainable as spares from Peco) and it is, shall we say, a challenging task!

I feel your pain.

Welcome to the forum.

That last photo looks familiar. Have you made any YouTube videos.

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Hi there, and as Chris says, welcome to the forum.

It makes a change to be greeted by a fully operational garden layout. When did you initially start? Has it been something you've wanted to do for some time?

I don't think a garden railway could ever be a place to recreate a scale model, it's as you say, about having fun and even if the plants and foliage are overscale it's still the best and most natural environment through which to watch passing trains. That last photo you uploaded is full of natural realism and something you could never recreate on an indoor layout. What a fabulous spot for capturing photographs and nothing appearing to be overscale.

Although many might see a single track layout as offering limited interest I've really enjoyed operating mine, more so than my previous double track layout. It's not always about filling the available space with as much as you can, in fact in my opinion it's better to start with a single track line because so many people set out on a quest to build a garden railway that never reaches fruition. They see a garden capable of accommodating double or quadruple tracks, along with stations, sidings and the works and it all becomes too much. Understanding the limitations of oo gauge in the garden is a must if you are to ever enjoy what you set out to create.

I'm still a firm believer in adding power along the rails and in all honesty I've encountered very few problems using DCC control. I wouldn't really know what voltage drop was if it slapped me in the face! Maybe I've had it, maybe I still get it, but I've never come across anything that's given me cause for concern. With a large collection of loco's it would be prohibitively expensive for me to consider any other form of control so it looks like I'll have to stick with what I've got until I've got it no more. But you're not alone on here as there are others on the forum who also use battery power and it's an interesting concept so I'm looking forward to seeing what it has to offer.

Looking forward to seeing more.

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8 hours ago, Virginia Rail said:

For me the attraction of a garden railway is in long sweeping curves, weaving amongst foliage, and dramatic bridges and viaducts.

Welcome to the forum.

Those features seem to be a popular in garden railways.

Your post is really interesting, especially your method of control. I'm guessing the locomotives are electrically isolated from the track? So that system could possibly run alongside conventional analogue or digital controlled trains in theory.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience to bring.

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Hi!

Very impressive what you are showing.
What is your experience with PVC rigid foam panels?
I also used them a lot, but I found that, especially when they are colored in dark colors, they heat up too much in the sun and then deform.
Which is why I have now strayed from installing them in places where a lot of sunshine is.

 

Regards

Thomas

 

 

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On 02/06/2020 at 23:16, mick said:

....

I don't think a garden railway could ever be a place to recreate a scale model, it's as you say, about having fun and even if the plants and foliage are overscale it's still the best and most natural environment through which to watch passing trains. 

But you can get pretty close to such a scale model.
It's a lot of work, of course.
But I'm confident there will be a time.
And the plants may not be to scale, but their colors are very lifelike (😜) so you can never get them in a replica ...

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Thanks for your welcome and comments Mick, Chris, Clay Mills Jn and ThomasL.

I started building ‘Virginia Rail’ (named after our house, a Victorian semi called ‘Virginia Villas’) in 2011, and converted to battery/radio-control in 2016. Yes, I suppose it was on my wish-list for some years before that. I agree, Mick, that one needs to the limitations of 00 and not be too ambitious. Buildings and infrastructure at the small scale are vulnerable if left outside: I only leave the platforms and viaduct arches (made of expanded polystyrene) and the bridges which are part of the track. The points are the only vulnerable part of the track, so I would suggest keep the number to a minimum, and keep them accessible. I did not go for any electric actuation, preferring to rely on grand-child labour! I remember I asked Peco if they could supply the points springs in stainless steel, but they could not (but they kindly sent me some spares). It’s a pity, because corrosion of this spring lets down of the whole system, for outdoor application. Have you had to replace these Chris? You get almost there, then ‘ping’ and you know you will spend the next half hour groveling on the floor looking for it!

I am interested in your use of DCC, Mick: I have never used it either outdoors or indoors. Does it have more tolerance of dirty track and poor contact than the traditional system? Before I converted to battery power I found that cleaning was becoming more difficult as the track aged, and maybe all that bending down was more difficult as I aged too! I used soap and water with a home-made ‘cloth on a stick’ tool. I also found that the locomotive wheels seemed to get dirty quickly. It was this, rather than voltage drop, which pushed me to change to batteries. Not every loco has the space, of course. The GWR 2-6-2T is about the smallest which can accommodate batteries. I have to confess to having converted a Hornby ‘Thomas the Tank Engine’ but the batteries and receiver are carried in the long-suffering Annie who follows him everywhere he goes…  The soldering on the tiny receivers can be rather a challenge, but once installed, the system gives good control, with smooth starting and stopping, good slow performance and of course no hesitation on points or dirty track. And you can run several locos on the track under separate control.   In answer to your question Clay Mills Junction, when I convert the locomotive to battery power I remove the pick-up brushes from the insulated wheels, so the loco is isolated from one track, and therefore, yes, you could run a conventional or DCC loco on the same track, I presume.

Chris, I have not posted any videos on U-tube. I suppose it is possible someone from the family has.

ThomasL – sunshine? What’s that? I live in Manchester! Seriously, I have not had problems with warping of the PVC track base. The PVC is only 5mm thick, cut to fit the track in a strip 50mm wide, so it is quite flexible and I just lay it on smoothed earth, or on bricks for raised sections. At higher levels I just rest the base on wood pillars at about 300mm intervals. The viaduct in my photo is done that way, but it is a bit of a cheat: the arches are only on the viewer’s side of the track. At the stations the base width is up to about 300mm wide, but again, I have not noticed any deformation. The foamed PVC comes in sheets 1.2m square, which I obtained from a company called Barkston. I do not leave the track outside all year, but there is no sign that the base would deteriorate if it was outside. I use brass pins for the track and stainless steel screws to join the sections, so apart from the afore-mentioned points spring, the system is weatherproof. You say you have used foamed PVC panels: was this for a track base or for larger constructions? What material do you now use instead of foamed PVC?

Again, thanks for your kind comments, and I look forward to our future correspondence.

Peter

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1 hour ago, Virginia Rail said:

Before I converted to battery power I found that cleaning was becoming more difficult as the track aged, and maybe all that bending down was more difficult as I aged too! I used soap and water with a home-made ‘cloth on a stick’ tool.

There are many tips I've picked up form this forum over the years, I and many others are in debt to Mick for running this, but one of the best was track cleaning. @IanR recommended a Garryflex Abrasive Cleaning Block. All it takes to clean the track is a gentle rub and the rail tops are shinny clean. It takes me around 5 minutes to do my 70 odd metres of track and points before a running session.

For a little more info, this is what we had to say about Garryflex back in 2011.

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Welcome

Thank goodness l am not the only person running dead rail (battery power) here anymore ! Do you use a commercial system or one you have built yourself? At present l have 3 locos running on Tam Valley boards with one more to fit. Also looking at the Del Tang system which will run with DC locos whilst the TV system works on DCC.

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4 hours ago, Virginia Rail said:

...I am interested in your use of DCC, Mick: I have never used it either outdoors or indoors. Does it have more tolerance of dirty track and poor contact than the traditional system?....

I really couldn't say from experience Peter because the only system I've ever used outdoors has been DCC and my only prior experience with traditional DC control was on a short length of track along the living room carpet some 30-odd years or so ago.

It's true that the track and rolling stock wheels must be clean but once that's done I very rarely have any problems with loco's stalling or sound cutting out and only two of my loco's are currently fitted with 'stay-alive' capacitors. I would also say that track needs to be flat along its length and level across the rails without any kinks and with as large a radius curves as you can possibly accommodate. With each section of rail then independently connected to the power supply, either through a bus wire or by bonding wire across the rail joiners, there shouldn't be any problems but I would imagine that those very same rules would apply equally to standard DC control too.

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On 05/06/2020 at 09:40, Virginia Rail said:

ThomasL – sunshine? What’s that? I live in Manchester! Seriously, I have not had problems with warping of the PVC track base. The PVC is only 5mm thick, cut to fit the track in a strip 50mm wide, so it is quite flexible and I just lay it on smoothed earth, or on bricks for raised sections. At higher levels I just rest the base on wood pillars at about 300mm intervals. The viaduct in my photo is done that way, but it is a bit of a cheat: the arches are only on the viewer’s side of the track. At the stations the base width is up to about 300mm wide, but again, I have not noticed any deformation. The foamed PVC comes in sheets 1.2m square, which I obtained from a company called Barkston. I do not leave the track outside all year, but there is no sign that the base would deteriorate if it was outside. I use brass pins for the track and stainless steel screws to join the sections, so apart from the afore-mentioned points spring, the system is weatherproof. You say you have used foamed PVC panels: was this for a track base or for larger constructions? What material do you now use instead of foamed PVC?

Again, thanks for your kind comments, and I look forward to our future correspondence.

Peter

Hello Peter

I used this PVC rigid foam as a trackbed and track base.
Since I used part of my tracks as a slab-track, I used black expanded PVC of 5mm because at the same time it imitated the asphalt used in Germany in the spaces between the tracks at slab-track.
And it was precisely this black material that was sometimes very distorted or shrunk.
I used the same material in light gray or white for the substructure under other tracks.
There were actually no problems with the white one, the light gray one was then distorted in some places.

Instead of PVC, I've recently started using a British product: Medite Tricoya Extreme Durable MDF.
This is a water and weatherproof MDF board (the manufacturer gives a 50 year guarantee) in 6mm thickness.
However, the material is also available in various other thicknesses from 4 to 20 mm.

In the picture you can see how I still use this black PVC foam in the transition from the bridge, while the switches behind it are already on the new Medite Tricoya Extreme Durable MDF (which I partly painted black).

Regards 

Thomas

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9 hours ago, ThomasI said:

Instead of PVC, I've recently started using a British product: Medite Tricoya Extreme Durable MDF.

Sadly Britain, i.e. the U.K., can't take the credit for this. It is actually manufactured in Clonmel, Co. Tipperary. The owning company, Coilte, is a statutory corporation owned by the Republic of Ireland government. However, the initial development was by a British company Accsys Technologies, with interests in the Netherlands.

I've obtained a free sample and it looks perfect for garden railway use.

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On 05/06/2020 at 10:50, chris said:

There are many tips I've picked up form this forum over the years, I and many others are in debt to Mick for running this, but one of the best was track cleaning. @IanR recommended a Garryflex Abrasive Cleaning Block. All it takes to clean the track is a gentle rub and the rail tops are shinny clean. It takes me around 5 minutes to do my 70 odd metres of track and points before a running session.

For a little more info, this is what we had to say about Garryflex back in 2011.

Thanks Chris. Maybe if I had known I would not have converted to battery RC! No doubt this will be useful indoors too. 

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On 05/06/2020 at 14:31, mick said:

I really couldn't say from experience Peter because the only system I've ever used outdoors has been DCC and my only prior experience with traditional DC control was on a short length of track along the living room carpet some 30-odd years or so ago.

It's true that the track and rolling stock wheels must be clean but once that's done I very rarely have any problems with loco's stalling or sound cutting out and only two of my loco's are currently fitted with 'stay-alive' capacitors. I would also say that track needs to be flat along its length and level across the rails without any kinks and with as large a radius curves as you can possibly accommodate. With each section of rail then independently connected to the power supply, either through a bus wire or by bonding wire across the rail joiners, there shouldn't be any problems but I would imagine that those very same rules would apply equally to standard DC control too.

Thanks Mick. Good advice on the track. I imagine that DCC would be designed to be tolerant of intermittent loss of the control signal, but of course if the motor loses power for long enough to stop, that wouldn't help. 

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On 05/06/2020 at 11:35, jimbob said:

 

Welcome

Thank goodness l am not the only person running dead rail (battery power) here anymore ! Do you use a commercial system or one you have built yourself? At present l have 3 locos running on Tam Valley boards with one more to fit. Also looking at the Del Tang system which will run with DC locos whilst the TV system works on DCC.

Hi Jimbob, and thanks for the welcome. I use the Deltang system, obtained from Micron Radio Control. Specifically, the transmitter is Tx22 and the receiver is  Rx60, and batteries 'Hyperion' LiPo, 320mAh. I found that two 1S batteries in series (giving 7.4V) give enough speed for slower trains, but three in series are needed for 'Express' performance. See photos attached. 

Peter

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On 06/06/2020 at 02:10, ThomasI said:

 

Instead of PVC, I've recently started using a British product: Medite Tricoya Extreme Durable MDF.
This is a water and weatherproof MDF board (the manufacturer gives a 50 year guarantee) in 6mm thickness.
However, the material is also available in various other thicknesses from 4 to 20 mm.

 

 

Hi Thomas

Thanks for the info on exterior MDF. It sounds a very useful material.

Peter

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Your wireing is a lot tidier than mine !  I am using the Tam valley system at present as it runs DCC fitted locos. The locos l've fitted at the moment were all DC locos converted to DCC which makes them easier to convert (for me anyway) but means the DCC chip etc takes up a bit more space. Micron are out of stock of the deltang DC version and have said they are on a long wait back order from the states at the moment. 

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