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ThomasI

Points with Central-locking-drive, Question about mechanics

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Hello my friends, At the end of the year I would like to ask the experts assembled here for their knowledge.

To use the car lock engine with Peco points is relatively easy, after switching these are held by the spring in position.

The central locking drive does not do that.

So now my question: If I use switches that do not have such a spring mechanism as this of Peco, how can I solve the problem, if I still want to use central locking drives?

Space is available next to and under the switches in masses, so I am open to any solution that is simple and stable.

For me, this is completely new territory, because indoor I have always used turnout drives in such cases, which take a stable position and thus compensate for the missing spring mechanism.

The engines for use outside, however, are extremely expensive and for my high-speed switches I would also need two each.

If you have the best suggestion, you may name an S-Bahn station on my layout for yourself or your place of residence or anything else you like.ūüėČ

And now I hope for many good ideas.

Thomas

1514564519758408001098.jpg

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Afternoon Thomas, there is a topic on  peco points outdoors here is the link to that topic.

I too am interested in using those car door locking motors as well, they are  water proof  and  12 volt  just two wires, but if you want to switch a set of five points you can buy a kit of 5 motors and remote control key.You can't directly switch a 00 scale peco point , have to  through a set of leavers,  Ian R  has explained how h did it and Mick has had a go.

I think you be able to leave the spring in, but the door locking motor should hold the point in place 

Be interesting how you will tackle the project, the door locking motors are cheaper that peco point motors and you can   use a SPST slide switch to operate signals, I am not sure about DCC you will have to ask IanR and Mick.

Tony from down under keeping on moving ahead

 

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Hi Tony!

I have no problems with Peco points. I am concerned with solutions for switches that do not have this spring mechanism. So non-peco switches.

The question is, how do I manage the effect of the spring on switches that do not have this.

Because they door locking motor didn't hold the point in place, at least with the motors available in Germany.

Thomas

Edited by ThomasI

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Hi Thomas, have you already made up  a working door locking motor ,why not look at small springs that can do that holding the switch in place in under the module what I would suggest .

How is the weather in Germany , it is dam hot here we are predicted storms for this afternoon , it is very cloudy here .

Tony from down under keeping on moving ahead

 

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Hi Tony!

I presume you have still 2018 now...

Happy New Year!

Weather is also very warm here, was sunny with 15 ¬įC today.

The problem with the spring is that it has to hold the switch in both the 'straight' position and the 'branching' position. And that, of course, without hindering the switchover.

Thomas

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With Peco points I've attached the car-lock-device simply with a 4 times kinked spring steel wire.

The quadruple bending of the wire ensures that differences in the travel path (Stellweg in German, my English  comes to the limits here) between the central locking drive and the switch are compensated.

See sketch.

1514741419709214113291.jpg

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Happy new year 2018  Thomas, yes well and truly  2018  night time and your morning.

Going by the drawing is that the size of the bend  in the wire, try a small curved bend as a spring, if you get onto Micks layout is how he did his the size of a pen , I haven't tried one out yet, may not now as I will be using remote control throttles and walk around with the train, depends if I have two local throttles or only one., don't think I will be going DCC now unless I win the lotto.

That is not too bad 15 degrees C we had those's temps last winter during the day, it is very muggy here had a bad storm his after noon , nice lot of rain and lightening show., January and Feb is the bad months of summer here, unstable, I might get a chance on Saturday , depends on hot hot it gets.

Be interested to see how you set your car door locking motor up .

 

Tony from down under keeping on moving a head.

 

 

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This type of self-adjusting link was always referred to as an "Omega" loop (¬†ő© ) in old model railway magazines, when electric point operation was the exception rather than usual. Apparently¬†ő© is the 24th (and last) letter of the Greek alphabet.

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3 hours ago, Riddles said:

This type of self-adjusting link was always referred to as an "Omega" loop (¬†ő© ) in old model railway magazines, when electric point operation was the exception rather than usual. Apparently¬†ő© is the 24th (and last) letter of the Greek alphabet.

So omega-loop is called that in English. It's going to be difficult for me with all the technical terms. This also knows no German-English dictionary.ūüėä

P.e.:¬†The frog is called in German Herzst√ľck, "heart-piece" if you translate it literally.

But also the omega-loop needs a drive that remains in the position after switching in order to exert enough pressure so that the switch blades remain firmly in the respective position.

And that's not what my central locking drives do. What is not a problem with Peco points, as the spring mechanism takes over this task.

Of course, I can still switch to servo drives for my switches without spring mechanism. But that is of course more expensive.

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Have you had any ideas regarding the 'locking' aspect Thomas? I understand exactly what you mean because one of the springs in my outside points has failed and the central locking motor doesn't provide the necessary force to hold the point blades fully across. It's okay when travelling in the reverse direction but slightly worrying when the points are facing. I'm sure there's a simple solution out there.

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On 27.1.2018 at 01:41, mick said:

Have you had any ideas regarding the 'locking' aspect Thomas? I understand exactly what you mean because one of the springs in my outside points has failed and the central locking motor doesn't provide the necessary force to hold the point blades fully across. It's okay when travelling in the reverse direction but slightly worrying when the points are facing. I'm sure there's a simple solution out there.

Hello Mick

I have not come to a satisfactory solution.

I have considered connecting the connection from the drive to the threshold with a slide switch.

(p.e.: https://www.conrad.de/de/schiebeschalter-1-x-einein-ms-280-1-st-709825.html?sc.ref=Category Overview )

I just do not know if the central locking engine has enough power for such a switch.

However, the slide switch would hold the point securely in position. And he can also serve as a frog juicer.

I'll probably have to do a test setup. I hope the sketch is understandable.

15195104854531200919953.jpg

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I've been looking at exactly the same thing Thomas but as you say, will need to do some tests to see if the motor has enough power to operate the switch reliably. If so then it could be the perfect answer to the problem. There are a multitude of cheap miniature slide switches available online (notably ebay) so I'm hopeful that one of them will prove suitable. Being able to utilise the switch itself for powering the frog is an additional bonus.

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Instead of a slide switch that needs some effort to move, why not use a mini microswitch that only needs some sort of wiper to activate. It's still on or off after all.

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6 hours ago, roddy said:

Instead of a slide switch that needs some effort to move, why not use a mini microswitch that only needs some sort of wiper to activate. It's still on or off after all.

Because the idea behind it is that the switch, precisely because a resistance has to be overcome for its switching, keeps the point securely in its position after the setting process.

First of all, it is about the mechanical effect of the slide switch.

That the switch can then also be used for the frog polarization is just a pleasant side effect.

Whether a microswitch works there, I can not judge.

Edited by ThomasI

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6 hours ago, mick said:

I've been looking at exactly the same thing Thomas but as you say, will need to do some tests to see if the motor has enough power to operate the switch reliably. If so then it could be the perfect answer to the problem. There are a multitude of cheap miniature slide switches available online (notably ebay) so I'm hopeful that one of them will prove suitable. Being able to utilise the switch itself for powering the frog is an additional bonus.

If you come before me to test, let us know the results!

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I just tested my central locking drives. So under power they have quite a lot of traction or compressive force. I'm optimistic. I ordered a selection of slide switches now.

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Yes they do operate with quite a kick so I think your optimism is in order. It all depends on the switch but there's bound to be one suitable I'm sure.

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Funnily, Tillig now brings a device that allows the setting of the hand of their points as a novelty. Even with integrated frog polarization. Thus, the problem, at least with respect to the turnouts I used from this company, is just done, because the central locking motor, I can connect very well to this handset device.

However, I can not use this device for my homemade points, especially those with the movable frog. So I have to stay on the ball. In the case of the high-speed switches, I even think that I have to use a drive for the blades and a drive for the movable frog.

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