flying Scotsman

[Baimor]

Fabulous news today that the world's most famous steam engine has returned to rails. Back when she belongs after a very lengthy and very expensive restoration.

[TheQ]

Very strange choice of colours with NE And a number 103 painted on her but with the German style smoke deflectors.

[Baimor]

I thought that too Q!! But regardless of her colour and new jewellery she's back!!

[EngineDriver]

She is still in the wartime black that the NRM put her in before it all went pear shaped. the final paint job is to be BR Brunswick Green as she finished her working life.

Did you notice she has actually three different numbers on her at her moment 103 on one side 502 on the other and 60103 on the smokebox!

I know it's famous and all that but for the money they have spent I think they should have stuffed and mounted it in the museum next to Mallard and then built a brand new one to run around on the main line with it would have cost less than the £4m they have spent on repairs for what another 10yrs? by which time it will be 103yr old, can't see it running about the system then!

So if you look at £4m for ten years running........... is it worth it?

It only cost about £3m to build Tornado and that will be around for ages

Sorry if I upset anyone it was not my intention I like the loco as much as the next guy, but sometimes I think you have to take a step back and have another look at things

[jimbob]

If you ask Joe public to name 3 steam engines l bet the answers would be Thomas, Mallard and Flying Scotsman. So restoring a "National Treasure" is probably worth it but as you say why so long and so much. I suspect as with many restoration projects the money was not there in on hit and was drip feed through bit by bit. Lets face it would we want the NRM to abandon all its other projects for years just to restore one loco?

One thing perhaps someone can answer me is why a loco like Tornado given the amount of mileage she does compared to a loco that was in every day service in the 50's needed an overhaul so soon.

NRM has the same problem as every preserved railway, space, money and volunteers, all of which are in short supply. The publicity that Scotsman will generate will hopefully bring more of all three into the hobby.

[TheQ]

Tornado was built with roller bearings not white metal which requires regular replacement. It was also built using modern measurement systems to ensure alignment of frames etc this reduces wear on everything lengthening service intervals. GWR introduced German optical alignment and consequently had improvements back then. Today's equipments are a vast improvement on back then. Similar improvement have been made to everything such as seals, welds, metals, Tornado is a visual replica, built to modern standards of the last of it's type, not an exact copy of An old pre war loco built in sheds with equipment which could be 100 years old.

[EngineDriver]

I suspect that back in the day the loco's were kept going by local fitters and the like until such a time when an overhaul was all but unavoidable, much like today in the "real world", where as in the preservation movement I think a tight reign is kept on them as perhaps they are seen (rightly or wrongly) as playing at it, by the powers that be!

[Baimor]

I have to agree with enginedriver that the money was probably not available as a cash lump sum to enable a quicker restoration. Regardless of how much it cost and how long it took this is still a national treasure! Built at a time when we brits were proud of what we built and built to show we were world leaders when it came to technology of the time. I suspect that the flying scotsman will generate quite a substantial amount of revenue for the NRM over the next 10 years. Surely, as an enthusiast, it's better to see these great locos where they belong, on the tracks, than mothballed in a museum never to rumble down the tracks again. Take the Mallard for example. If a replica of this engine was built using modern materials and technology it wouldn't drive or feel like the original! Now imagine running this engine at 126 mph, which it would probably be more than capable of doing or even exceeding, and trying to charge people for the ride. There is no way it would be anything like the original record breaking run as most people with an ounce of sense would know. Now imagine the real mallard recreating it's 126 mph run. Many many more people would be willing to pay to experience this than they would in a replica. As amazing as Tornado is, it will only ever be a replica of the original. Built using modern materials and technology it will never feel like the original! Too many amazing engines were lost at Barry Island back in the day. I think the ones we managed to save should be kept alive regardless of the cost.

[jimbob]

Have to say l like my steam or any loco for that matter to be mobile rather than stuck in a transport zoo. However better that than stuck out in a siding in the open "awaiting restoration" / money.

There is always a backlog of locos waiting for money, workshop space or manpower at any preserved railway let alone rolling stock as well. Add to that the disscusions between differant groups within societys about who or what should be prority for limited funds and you get the situation where lots of little things are patched up to keep things going and everyone happy which of course just results one massive repair bill when the time comes to do it properly.

So now Scotsmans done, whats next?

[Riddles]

"So now Scotsmans done, whats next?"

Surely the re-streamlined Duchess of Hamilton should be back on the mainline, even though the "cosmetic" restoration does look superb.

[mick]

I think it's absolutely great to see Flying Scotsman back where it belongs but I'm left wondering just how much of the original loco is actually left? It seems to me a bit like Trigger's broom , although I do personally believe the cost of renovation is worth it to have the present day Scotsman back running on the mainline.

I also think its great that we are using modern technology and construction methods to build a new generation of steam locomotives such as 'Tornado' that are destined to become household names in their own right and I'm sure that if asked to name three steam engines a good few of the public would now include Tornado alongside the iconic names such as Mallard, Scotsman, and so on.

[Baimor]

Whilst I do agree Mick, that Tornado may become a household name, it won't be for the same reasons as we remember mallard, flying scotsman, et al. It will only be remembered as a "modern" steam engine. Yes, when you refer to scotsman, she may not have many of her original parts left, but she is still essentially THE Flying Scotsman. She is not a replica. I take my hat off to the NRM for firstly taking her on in the first place after her first few millionaire owners fell into financial difficulties trying to keep her, and secondly for spending such vast amount of money to keep her running. Regardless of what colour she is or what number she is given she's back!!

[Baimor]

Whilst I do agree Mick, that Tornado may become a household name, it won't be for the same reasons as we remember mallard, flying scotsman, et al. It will only be remembered as a "modern" steam engine. Yes, when you refer to scotsman, she may not have many of her original parts left, but she is still essentially THE Flying Scotsman. She is not a replica. I take my hat off to the NRM for firstly taking her on in the first place after her first few millionaire owners fell into financial difficulties trying to keep her, and secondly for spending such vast amount of money to keep her running. Regardless of what colour she is or what number she is given she's back!!

[TheQ]

Yes A New A4 would be quicker with roller bearings reducing the rolling resistance, also remember they Broke Mallard when doing the record attempt as the center cylinder big end bearing failed, as they Expected, they had fitted a stink bomb to the bearing so they'd know when it overheated. The One common failure on Gresley's 3 cylinder designs was failure of that bearing. Modern roller bearings would not fail on a 4 month old engine.

[mick]

I see that the Scotsman's run over the Settle & Carlisle this Saturday has had to be cancelled due to brake problems. Train runs with two black 5s instead.

[Baimor]

There's bound to be a few teething troubles with a rebuilt engine though. She'll soon be fighting fit and raring to go