Jump to content

Minffordd Garden Railway


drmalesis
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the welcome, it's nice to be on a forum where the welcome is genuine, you don't get shot down in flames if you ask a silly question or your kit doesn't come from such and such a manufacturer. I sat in the sidings for a while reading some of the many posts, all were helpfull and interesting to read and offered with a refreshingly friendly tone.

As for the size of the area I have available, well thats a completely different kettle of fish. To say it's huge is a bit of an understatement. In size it's about 50m x 250m. the down side is that it's on the opposite side of the road from the house, and has a slope of about 1 in 3 from the roadside to the top. Suffice to say, I think a good deal of the layout will be raised on posts. Obviously getting power to the other side of the road will be a challenge, but my brother's an electrician and we have a couple of ideas about how to do it (legally that is). The second problem, and by far the worst, is that the land is a bit of a jungle. It's full of mature trees, brambles and every other kind of undesirable weed. We have cleared a small area for a veggie plot, and that wasn't too bad so with a bit of judicial tree pruning and clearing up, I think were in pretty good shape.

The sort of layout I'm looking at will be similar in size to your own, and will be a figure 8 arrangement. Like you, I'm not a stickler for prototypical layouts, operation or even the matching of correct coach or wagon stock with the correct loco. I just like to see loco's running at the correct scale speed with proper length train behind them.

I hope to make a start in a couple of weeks or so, when I'll start posting photos of the plot and the commencement of then project. Needless to say, it won't happen overnight...

cheers

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 139
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Hi Duncan, I don't wish to be a "wet blanket" but is it wise to build on the other side of the road, security wise? I can only assume the place where you want to build is totally secure. For although you won't leave stock on the line, is it possible for vandals to have easy access to the railway construction and smash it to bits....for fun? If it is totally secure then I wish you all the best of "aussie" luck.

Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Roy,

Don't worry about being a "wet blanket" as you're right to be concerned and it's not something I'm considering lightly. However I do have a slight advantage over many people. Firstly I live in the middle of the Welsh countryside off a minor road which is 3 miles from the nearest main road. My nearest neighbours are 3/4 of a mile away. Secondly, the land is edged by hedgerow 15 feet high at the roadside and it's not easy to to see any of the land beyond. Now don't get me wrong, but the type of people who might get kicks out of vandalising something for fun just don't come past this way. Otherwise, I'm just as susceptible as the next person to burglary etc.

Let's hope it's not put to the test, as the only other option is life without any railway - unthinkable...

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

G'day Duncan, had a look on my AA road atlas which I bought in Carlisle in 2007 to see which part of Wales your from and I see your near Talerddig, and not that far from Welshpool or LLangollen. I've been to Wales and the weather on both occasions was sunny with a bit of overcast. I love how green it is (now doubt due to all the rain you get) I was watching the WRC on telly and there was a sign on the roadside as the multi coloured car roared past covered in mud which read " of course it's green that's because it rains so much".

I went to the LLangollen Railway in 2000 and had a ride from LLangollen to Carrog and back behind 4141 and took some video which is on my you tube channel.

Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi All,

Although I've been sitting in the sidings for a while and made a couple of post to the Selby Garden Railway, I've decided It's time to move on and start my own thread in readiness for my own setup. :D

I've decided to create a layout similar to the SGR in as such as I intend to create a track layout based on a figure of eight. The resemblence stops there however as I need to raise the layout somewhat to navigate the gradient of the land. The construction will be similar to Roy's HLR, but not on such a grand scale as I only anticipate a run of double track. Construction materials will consist of wooden posts in metal post holders and either decking boards or marine ply for the track bed. I've decided on the name "The Minffordd Line" for the time being as it accurately describes the location of the line - "Minffordd" is welsh for edge or side of road.

I have researched the various DCC controllers out there, and have more or less plumped for the NCE Powercab Starter pack. I may need to get the 5amp booster at a later stage, but I don't anticipate any requirements for multiple throttles etc. Other offerings will be considered if anyone has any good suggestions, or reasons why my controller selection might not be such a good idea.

Photo's of the plot coming soon...

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Quote

G'day Duncan, had a look on my AA road atlas which I bought in Carlisle in 2007 to see which part of Wales your from and I see your near Talerddig, and not that far from Welshpool or LLangollen. I've been to Wales and the weather on both occasions was sunny with a bit of overcast. I love how green it is (now doubt due to all the rain you get) I was watching the WRC on telly and there was a sign on the roadside as the multi coloured car roared past covered in mud which read " of course it's green that's because it rains so much".

I went to the LLangollen Railway in 2000 and had a ride from LLangollen to Carrog and back behind 4141 and took some video which is on my you tube channel.

Hi Roy,

Posted my reply here as it's a bit long winded for Micks thread...

I'm literaly only a couple of miles from Talerddig, which was part of the old GWS Cambian Coastal route.

The line's is in the hands of Arriva Trains Wales now and plays host to Class 158 DMU's, although the odd Steam Rail tour passes

through occasionally and we can occasionally get to see the site of the odd Castle or Manor Class. In the days of steam, trains used to

have to double head up the Talerddig Bank on their way back to Shreswbury or Birmingham, which even now can occasionally cause grief

for the 158's if the weathers bad.

We have a fair selection of preserved lines in the area, mainly narrow gauge such as the Welshpool & Llanfair Railway, Corris Railway,

the Talyllyn Railway (where they have a locomotive called Duncan by the way), Fairbourne Steam Railway and not forgetting the

Ffestiniog Railway

My favourite though is the Llangollen Railway as I've always had a preference for standard gauge railways and secondly because it's also the

home of the LMS-Patriot Project, where they are in the process of building a new 4-6-0 Patriot called the "Unknown Warrior" in time for

the 100th anniversary of the 1st World War armistice in 2018. Just google the LMS-Patriot Project for more info.

As a Midlander, I've always been a huge fan of anything LMS, in fact the first model I bought was the Hornby Patriot Class 4-6-0 5514 "Holyhead". It's still

in spanking new condition as we moved from the Midlands to Wales in 2003 just after I got the modelling bug and it's all been in storage since.

Although I'm a big steam fan, I do have a couple of Bachmann Diesels in the shape of a Class 42 Warship D800 "Sir Brian Roberston",

and a Class 25 D7672 "Tamworth Castle" which is the only DCC Ready loco I have. After watching the many videos Mick has uploaded of his collection

of Class 37's with DCC sound I'm struggling to sleep at night with the excitement of looking forward to owning my own. My dearest will have a fit

when she see's the cost. S'pose I can always say it's Micks fault. :lol:

My collection of loco's and rolling stock is pitiful - 7 loco's in total, and my longest rake of coaches is 6 or 12 if I mix and match. As I said earlier, we

moved house just as I was getting started.

By the way, I think 4141 is on loan to the Great Central Railway at the mo...

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

G'day Duncan,

Duncan on the Tallyllyn Railway is actually Douglas and was the first loco that my parents saw in the 1950's on a trip to Wales when they lived in London. In 2000 I took them with me on my first UK trip and we went to the Tallyllyn and the loco that pulled our train was Douglas. My parents were moved out to Australia in 1960 by the company dad worked for and although he went back (on business) in 1973 it was mum's first visit since 1960. I was born here in Australia in 1962. I have dual nationality as my parents have never become naturalised Australians.

Don't worry about only having a small fleet of locos as that will grow in time. I probably have far to many locos (about 80 so far) and all with sound.

I had my sound decoders fitted by Howes Models for me and in fact at this very moment I have 4 locos at Howes being "reblown", two Hornby Kings and a Hornby Grange and a Bachmann class 45 which had a Mr Sound Guy sound decoder which to put mildly is f****** pathetic. I also bought from Model Rail magazine an exclusive Bachmann 08 shunter and that's also being fitted with sound.

I'm not some stinking rich aussie, ( I clean public toilets for a living) but I rarely go on holidays. The last time was four years ago and I now have 21 weeks of accrued annual leave and I'm being pressured to take some more leave. We're only supposed to accrue 8 weeks. But what are they going to do sack me? It was on the news here that Australian workers have around 70 million hours of untaken leave. So the thought that aussies are bludgers and just like going to the beach and having barbecues is a myth.

If you use a lot of wood I suggest you paint it to stop rain water penetrating the wood and distorting it. There is also a lot of talk on power boosters on the net and although I have a 650m length of line I only have the 5amp booster in my NCE Procab command station. Where you will need extra boosters is if you have 20 or more locos all running at once. Some shops will try to talk you into having an extra 3 or 4 boosters. But I think that the price is just "music" to their ears.

For bus wires I've used G scale at 2.5mm stranded and 1mm solid copper for track feeders and rail joint bonding.

Don't be tempted to use small thin wire for a bus wire as it will heat up during operation and may get to the point where it melts and catches fire.

Think of a cake decorating funnel ( you know the way to put cream on in fancy little blobs) if you had to put the cream on through a 1mm hole it would be very difficult and the same with electricity. Whereas if you use a large diameter wire the electricity will flow easily. The bus wire doesn't just provide power but all the packets of data to the locos and accessories on you railway. Get your wire from an electrical wholesaler NOT a model shop. You can but it will cost you three times as much. Mine came on 100m length rolls.

Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Roy,

 

cleanerg6e said:

I probably have far to many locos (about 80 so far) and all with sound.

God the wife would kill me just for talking about that many, never mind owning them... :lol:

cleanerg6e said:

If you use a lot of wood I suggest you paint it to stop rain water penetrating the wood and distorting it.

That's a pretty sound idead, and was my intention anyway. You can't buy real creosote any more in the UK due to health and safety restrictions which would have been my preferred method, but I think I'll take a leaf out of the Kirkfield Railway book and treat with bitumen and finish of with roof felt. I'm pretty handy with wood as most of the garden structures we have in the lower garden(fencing, decking and a even an 8' x8' Roll Off Roof Observatory for my Telescope) were all designed and built from scratch by yours truly. Like you say distortion is the biggest problem for smooth running and spoils the realism.

Like you, I ain't well paid. Salaries in Wales fall into two categories the National Minimum, or the the dole queue. But rather that than go back to the stress and pressure of city life - however well paid.

Anyway, we digress...

I'm pleased to see that large layouts don't necessarily mean you need a more powerfull controller. Although I'm pretty okay with electrics, I wasn't sure if you needed more grunt to push 12v around a larger length of track. Your comments have put my mind at rest and will probably save me some money to put towards the Class 37 I'm craving for. If there was one thing I was concerned about with the Powercab Starter Pack it was the slighly lower Amps output than a couple of others I looked at, e.g Digitrax Zephyr Xtra and Hornby Elite. Although I'm still considering the Digitrax Zephyr as well - even though it's not the most user friendly offering out there.

As promised, here are a few piccies of the intended site...

min1.jpg

This image show the area we cleared last year for the veggie plot. The bracken and stuff all appeared whilst we were away on a weeks holiday. Nature soon takes over.

min2.jpg

This image shows the anticipated location of the layout. The line will shoot off into the bushes, around the tree to the right and back again. Obviously the route will need to be cleared.

min3.jpg

The final image shows the plot from the road. The land stretches out to the far telegraph pole, and is mainly mature oak, beech and Birch trees. It's a haven for wildlife, and we want to keep it that way as much as possible. In fact when I got home from work (which is where I am now), Ros (my partner) had already started the laborious job of clearing the area around the veggie plot, and will make a start on the area for the layout today - bless her cotton socks.

Please see my gallery for a few other images...

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh my... that looks to be quite a task you've got there Duncan but I'm sure that if it's something you are both looking forward to doing then it's going to be worth every bit of sweat. If I was a bit closer I'd offer to help out - it's going to be quite some transormation.

It's funny you should mention the vegetable garden because that's what I've been doing recently and my partner has got herself involved too which has made it all the more pleasant. It's good to hear that you enjoy the isolation too. We've just got back from the west coast of Scotland where you can go for miles without meeting upon anyone and it's by far our most favourite part of the country. Now if only we could combine the model railway, the gardening and the west coast of Scotland!

Great selection of photos so I'm looking forward to the ongoing progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the offer of help, though It's not really as bad as it looks. We cleared this area last year, but the removal of the small orchard that consisted of a couple of old and knackered apple trees, several mature damson trees, and loads of self seeded damson saplings has allowed the light in, which in conjuction with the disturbance of the soil has triggered all the dormant stuff into overdrive. Believe it or believe it not, it more or less bare soil two weeks ago !

We do like a little isolation, but you can get a little too much and end up with cabin fever if you're not careful, so it's nice to pop down the local for a few bevvies once in while to catch up with the many friends we've made here and the local gossip.

On another tack altogether, I've been giving my loco stock a bit of an airing this week on a small oval in the spare bedroom. I took the body off my Bachmann Class 25 D7672 "Tamworth Castle" to check out the decoder socket as the documentation makes no mention of the number of pins it has. To my horror, I found that one of the red pickup wires had been trapped between the spigot on the body, and the hole where the screw comes through the chassis. I gently teased the wire out of the hole and fixed it to the chassis in a small ball of bluetack both to insulate the bare wires that were showing and to keep it away from the decoder circuit board. :shock:

If it was a new loco, I would send the blighter back, but alas it's ten years old with less than 10 hours on the clock, so it's a case of diy, and I'll make the repair when I install the decoder. Is this type of problem common, or was my example a Friday afternoon effort ?

Anyway, you have a couple (at least ;) ) Class 25's - are all your decoders factory fitted, or have you had to install any yourself ? I'm looking for a bit of advice on a suitable decoder for "Tamworth Castle".

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

drmalesis said:

I'm pleased to see that large layouts don't necessarily mean you need a more powerfull controller. Although I'm pretty okay with electrics, I wasn't sure if you needed more grunt to push 12v around a larger length of track.

Hi Duncan, with DCC it's AC on the track not DC. With mine 14.25 volts AC.

Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been doing a spot of 'housekeeping' to merge some of your previous posts and responses into this thread - hope it's easy to follow.

Not sure how many class 25s I've got.... :? but I haven't fitted any of them with a decoder myself. I recently disposed of one that was DCC ready as part of my ongoing attempt at thinning out some surplus stock being a separately purchased body on a previously purchased chassis that didn't quite fit together.

As for decoders it would seem that everyone has their particular favourites. I've not had any problems with the standard Bachmann decoders but have had failed Hornby decoders. I've tended so far to purchase the budget types in order to keep costs to a minimum but I know it's sometimes false economy to do so. With a preference for sound-fitted locos, choice of decoder is almost immaterial and I've tended to hold back on purchasing the standard decoders where I have plans for obtaining sound decoders for a particular loco in the future.

The class 37 would be an excellent choice and an ideal introduction to DCC sound. All but one of the ones I have that are sound-fitted have the standard factory fitted sound chips installed which isn't too bad but becomes just a bit too predictable after a while. It's also low on volume. I have one example that was reblown for me which is better as it responds to how you drive but is still a little on the quiet side and so I'll be trying the 'Howes' version next. Unfortunately sound-fitted locos are more expensive than standard models so it might not be just the excitement of getting your hands on one that will keep you awake at night. However, once you hear one there really is no comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

mick said:

I've been doing a spot of 'housekeeping' to merge some of your previous posts and responses into this thread - hope it's easy to follow.

That's much better, now it's all in one place. :D

I've found a TCS decoder on the Bromsgrove Models Website that plugs directly into the 8 pin socket that seems to fit the bill. As a bog standard loco with no lights or other functions to worry about, a standard 2 function decoder would be more than adequate. My main concern is the maximum amps being drawn when the loco is stalled, as I have no means of measuring the amps being drawn. It's the TCS DP2X-UK and has a continuous rating of 1 amp and a max rating of 2 amps. Do you reckon that would be upto the job ? :?

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The TCS DP2X-UK looks an excellent choice Duncan and from my limited knowledge I would say that 1 amp continuous rating along with the 2 amp peak would be more than adequate for the class 25. The fact that it doesn't have an harness and attached plug is even better, making installation a lot neater.

I'd not heard of 8 pin decoders without wire harness and plug until recently and was wondering why there were none available. It's obviously down to space restrictions as I see the TCS DP2X-UK is too large to fit in some locos - fortunately the Bachmann 25 isn't one of those listed on the Bromsgrove website.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been away for a day or two and loads is discussed.

Just to jump in. I run the NCE PowerCab and I love TCS chips. Admittedly, the only other chips I've used are Hornby, but I've been removing them and giving them away (one went into a Bachmann Class 25!) because the TCS ones are much better.

I've used TCS T1 and T4X chips. Seen as you are not going to use the 2 functions then the direct plug DP2X is exactly what you want.

I also thought I'd need a booster at some point. But so far, even with 3 operators I've not had any power issues. I'll see how things develop as Amblethopre grows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

mick said:

The TCS DP2X-UK looks an excellent choice Duncan and from my limited knowledge I would say that 1 amp continuous rating along with the 2 amp peak would be more than adequate for the class 25. The fact that it doesn't have an harness and attached plug is even better, making installation a lot neater.

 

chris said:

Just to jump in. I run the NCE PowerCab and I love TCS chips. Admittedly, the only other chips I've used are Hornby, but I've been removing them and giving them away (one went into a Bachmann Class 25!) because the TCS ones are much better.

I've used TCS T1 and T4X chips. Seen as you are not going to use the 2 functions then the direct plug DP2X is exactly what you want.

Thanks for the info guys. When you're running to a tight budget, the fewer mistakes the better. Even the little ones all add up in the end. That's the beauty of forums like this I Guess.

Chris, as a PowerCab user I guess you're using a second UTP panel for the 3rd operator - would that be correct ? Although I've read the manual cover to cover, it doesn't really explain the use of the extra UTP panels in any great depth. Are you able to plug the PowerCab into either of these extensions, or is it purely for the extra throttles like the Cab04 etc. ?

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The manual is far from clear on this UTP front and I did a lot of reading before I understood the limitations of the PowerCab system. I'll try and explain...

To run a DCC system you need a Command Station (CS) that is in control of the whole system. The Command Station issues commands to the trains and accessories, it has to be connected to the track at all times because it is supplying power and broadcasting it's data continuously. The CS is the track interface, the system computer.

DCC also needs a human interface (just like a PC needs a keyboard and mouse) so we can tell it what to do, this is called a Throttle or Cab. The throttle can be a simple affair with just direction and speed or it can give you control over all the DCC functions, accessories etc.

A DCC system has only one Command Station, but it can have multiple throttles.

Some systems, usually starter ones, combine a Command Station and a throttle into one box. This is great, but what happens to it when you out grow your starter kit? NCE have thought this through.

The PowerCab unit works as a Command Station and a throttle when it is plugged into the PCP (Power Cab Power) pannel, which is supplied with the started kit. However, the PowerCab doesn't have to be a Command Station, it can be just a throttle, so when my mate brings his PowerCab round and plugs it into my system it plays nice and doesn't try and be the CS, it just controls the trains. When used in this way NCE refer to it as a Pro Cab.

The PCP has two inputs on the front. One for a PowerCab and one for a second throttle, in my case I have a Cab04. On the back there is an output for UTP. UTP's can be placed round the system so you can plug a throttle in at convenient location. This is all great, but here come the limitations...

A PowerCab plugged into the PCP is a Command Station, this has to be plugged in all the time because it is the track power supply, if you unplug it, everything stops. A second throttle can be moved from the PCP to a UTP without a problem, but the PowerCab must stay put. I don't think this point is made clear in the manual.

Second, and something I certainly didn't get form the manual, a PowerCab system is limited to two throttles. You can only have your PowerCab and one other throttle attached to your system, no matter how may UTP's you may have. If you want more you need to buy a SB-3a Smart Booster which will allow up to 4 throttles (it is also a Command Station, so your PowerCab can be used as a ProCab and be moved around UTPs). Other NCE kit will allow more than 4 throttles, but you're heading into club setups at this stage.

Getting back to your question of how do I have three operators. I have the PowerCab plugged into the PCP and into the second port I have the USB Computer Interface (which the system sees as a throttle) linked to an old PC. On the PC I have JMRI (Java Model Railway Interface) software which is free and this allows me to have several throttles on the screen at one time. Multiple throttles on one screen is not massively practical seen as there is still only one mouse an thus one operator. If you have old lap tops hanging around (or your friends bring their own) these can be added via a wireless network, but that isn't very practical in the garden. I'm in the fortunate position of owning an iPod Touch and there is an "App" for the JMRI software which enables me to control trains (and points, even routes!) wirelessly form my iPod. In fact all my mates who come round for running sessions have an iPod Touch or an iPhone so we can all have our own throttles, there are basically no limits on the number. In my opinion, the iPhone app makes an easier to use throttle than the PowerCab, especially for controlling points.

The great thing about this is the cost. I already had an old PC, an iPod and a wireless network so the only costs were the USB interface, £35, and the App, £5.99. There's even a free version of the App which my mates use, it's missing some of the advanced functions but it controls trains. You don't really need the old PC, if you have a laptop all the better, I use the old PC because it can be permanently set up in the shed and I don't have to stop my wife from using the (her) laptop.

Anyway, I hope my description of the NCE system helps. I took me a while to figure it all out and I'm probably still wrong about some of the stuff, but I heartily recommend them for DCC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I Chris can heartily recommend NCE DCC for although I have the radio version of the Power Pro, changing CV's such as direction bits is SO simple. I've had one or two locos back from Howes after fitment of sound decoders and after entering the address which as it comes from Howes is 3 I then press forward and move the loco which runs in reverse. So I just press Pro/Esc and select POM select CFG and press enter until DIR BIT comes up and underneath it reads ENTER=NORM 1= REVERSE. So I press 1 then press Pro/Esc to return to normal operation and the loco moves forward when I want it too SIMPLE!. :D

QSI sound locos are quite different to Loksound locos as you have to set CV62 to 0 as the QSI has verbal feedback and when trying to change multiple CV's you enter the CV and change it's value and as it gives verbal conformation of this action the decoder then misses the second and third CV change. Then the loco doesn't want to move or do anything else. On my Eureka Garratt F6 causes total loco shut down and has to be pressed twice in order for the loco to respond again. Turning off the CS makes no difference what so ever for the information was sent to the decoder before the CS was turned off. :?

I had a problem with headlights which were on and lit on the front of the loco in forward direction with the rear light off, and when running in reverse both the rear and front were lit. I had to change 6 CV's in order to have the rear on when running in reverse and the front off. :roll:

F3 is couple up when pressed and when pressed again is the sound of air hoses being separated. :o

Roy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Chris & Roy,

Thanks for the very clear and helpful information. That's certainly cleared up a few questions I had in mind. Although the planned layout is not going to be massive, sections of it will dissapear from view, and I would like to be able to control the trains from other locations around the layout. The UTP panels in conjunction with a Cab04 sound Ideal. :)

Based on both of your whole hearted recommendations and the many reviews I've read, I decided (just 5 mins ago) to bag a PowerCab off eBay for £96.00 with free postage. Not a huge saving over the cost of a new one, but it does save a few pennies for a couple of decoders. :D

Thanks once again to both of you for your help...

Duncan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...